Profile For Joe K.

June 2015 UPDATE

OK, so it took me some time, but I finally jumped ship from CR England. There were plenty of good reasons to move on, mostly based on pay, but I still don't have any terrible things to say about them. I just saw that there was never going to be adequate pay, even though I was running like a raped ape, maximizing my trips & HOS hours. I did have three miserable months, with trouble tractors & trailers, and more of the things I was initially hired for (more quitters, consequently, more recoveries). YES, I get that I was paid a little better for driving Relief & Recovery, but it was never worth having to jump in different trucks all the time, having to deal with the messes left behind by sloppy fired/quitting drivers. Who lives in their vehicle like it's their own personal landfill??? No, nobody scattered their bodily waste inside the trucks I was getting in, but there were some total slobs, unbelievably. One of my last runs was with my first "relief" vehicle, where another recovery guy picked up a company driver that was taking time off, and the recovery driver was continuing to run loads with that truck. That recovery driver picked me up in Laredo, and I drove him to Dallas, where he picked up another recovery vehicle, while I continued on in the original relief truck. Trouble is, the relief truck was also a mess, and every cubby hole was filled with trash, from the company driver. I made a point of getting in on one of CRE's safety conferences to complain that a truck full of someone else's "trash" left me in jeopardy, since there was no way I could go through their stuff to insure there were no guns, knives, drugs, alcohol, etc. buried in the piles. I cleaned out the cab section/cubbies, and put all that junk under the bunk, with their other junk. There were prescription drugs among the items left behind by the company driver, so my points should have been taken well by CRE Safety, which they seemed to do. Still, there I was in a company truck, with someone else's drugs in the vehicle, and I'm sure I'd have learned that it was a legal issue, if I'd had a full DOT exam, or had gotten in an accident, and they went hunting for potential reasons. (I mean, if a person could just have someone else's drugs in their vehicle, and claim it wasn't theirs, wouldn't all the drug users just have someone else's bottle in the vehicle, and claim it wasn't theirs????) Funny thing, when I ended up picking the company driver back up, he wanted to know where all his junk was, and was ****ed off when I told him it was with the rest of his junk. We had to run a trip together, and he was a real card, but I finally got myself out of that situation, and into yet another vehicle.

The point is, why should I have been subjected to that nonsense, when I wasn't getting paid anywhere near the standard driver rate, for someone with nearly two year's experience??? I quit. I now drive team, driving doubles, for a contractor, that is taking much better care of me, getting me home every week, and paying me a lot more for the hours I do work. And, while nothing is ideal, in life, this is much better, making more and being home with family more often.

Can't prove it, but I think there is age discrimination in some instances. It's illegal, of course, but the companies that don't want to hire because of advanced age for whatever reason/s find ways to "legally" not hire from that group (mainly by simply ignoring the application). That being said, there are a whole lot of older drivers out there still getting the job done. It would probably require an audit by some governmental agency to prove it, e.g., compare the percentage of older qualified applicants to the percentage actually hired. Just my opinion, of course.

NO DOUBT about it, though far, far less in the trucking industry, than in general job hunting. As they say, "the truck doesn't have a clue how old you are...", but the people that hire certainly do...

I don't look anywhere near my age, anyway, but it's still something that the resume tends to show, unless you purge anything related to age/dates from your resume, in which case they tend to look at you as being deceptive, when in reality, you're just playing their game. In my case, I had a two-year void in my resume, from having given up my job to take care of my dad, in his last two years of life (dementia, etc), as opposed to planting him in a facility. I suppose that 2-year void was looked at strangely, even though I explained things, if I ever got a meeting, in person. I'm guessing some would think I was in jail or something, not at home, taking care of an elder, using my own resources to pay the bills... The trouble is, I rarely got an actual interview, since the "new" electronic version of applying for jobs probably just screened me out based on that void, or some ridiculous & arbitrary "hiring range" a prospective employer might have supplied to the electronic resume filters. Hundreds of my very professional resumes were sent out, with very little, or no response.... That hasn't happened so much since I got into trucking, though, it did happen once, and that particular outfit just called me back, to offer me a job, a little too late.

I was on board with what you were saying all the way up to this point...... The main problem I have with this statement, but because it's not true because it is totally correct, but the fact that you knew before hand that they pain HHG miles or zip code to zip code miles before you actually started driving for them. Reason I know you knew was I sat through the exact same orientation as you did when I was worked for them. And yet you stayed a year. So it must have been agreeable and still is agreeable if your still willing to stay.

June 2015 - We'll, that's not actually true. None of us really seemed to know what we'd get paid, once on the road (most didn't even know if they'd make it through training, to become drivers).

I suppose a lot depends on where you went to the CRE school, but at Fontana, there were no conversations about HOW they calculated pay mileage, let alone what we'd get paid, working for them. The only "pay" conversations were about how we'd get paid, once on the road as trainees, and not really much more. As I said, it could have been different where you went to CRE school, but there was ZERO pay conversations, while at Fontana... Most of us hadn't a clue there were different methods, let alone different mileage pay rates for new employees (most got .28 cents/mile out of school, but I got .35 cents/mile by joining Relief & Recovery right out of the gate).

OK, so I made the grade @ CRE, survived the winter weather, hit my one-year driving anniversary 6 Sep 14, and now I'm reflecting on my options. Many things come to mind...

Can I do a lot better with another carrier?? Is the time right for a move? Is the industry on the upswing, with the economy? Should I take an overseas "danger-zone" job to make money quicker, mostly tax free?? Should I consider trucking with the fracking industry?

OK, so I'm sure there'll be a plethora of responses saying you can always do better than CRE, but moving from .35/mi with CRE to .37/mi with another carrier IS NOT a viable option in my opinion. That's just not worth the effort. But, moving from .35/mi to .42-.46/mi might. Also, since I'm currently driving reefer, is a change going to involve training with some different carrier/trailer configuration, that's also going to cost me, while training?

I'm noticing, with the HUGE amount of requests for drivers out there, but many of them are requiring two-years experience (for insurance purposes, I presume), and, yet, I have one friend that got hired after one week out on the road (during training), and another got hired with as little as six-months experience, both younger guys (I'm 61, but healthy & fairly trim). I've applied at both, and got nowhere... So, the next question, is there age discrimination in this industry, even though the truck doesn't care? Are these carriers just looking for younger drivers that they expect to employ for decades (even when current-day job employment histories show people rarely stay that long with one company for much longer than 5 years)? (*It should be noted that I have a better driving record than both, since the first got DQ'd from CRE for a moving violation ticket in his first week, and the other had an approximate $5k accident during training).

Here's my list of questions to ask prospective employers:

Do you accept one-year as an experienced driver? Do you pay practical mileage, or will be jip me on every run by paying Zip Code zone mileage like CRE did/does (they're getting better on this...) What is your mileage rate? Do you ever pay trip rate? Do you hire company drivers, or are you trying to get me into a lease? If you require a lease, is the lease you offer a decent arrangement, with a minimal payout? What year & make of vehicle would I be driving, with one-year OTR experience? Do you have detention pay? How is it calculated? Do you have layover pay? How is it calculated? Do you have breakdown pay? How is it calculated? Weekly settlements, or semi-monthly pay periods? Expected weekly mileage? Expected annual income? Vacation pay? How is it calculated? Medical? Dental? Vision? Legal? Do you offer a sign-on bonus to solo company drivers? Leaseholders? Do you have APU's in the vehicles? Do you pay tolls, or require drivers to re-route longer distances, using valuable drive hours? Do you have in-cab navigation? How often can I expect home time? Do you have a terminal in So Cal to get me there for home time? Will you re-route me to So Cal for home time? Do you have regional runs? Dedicated runs? OTR runs?

I'm sure there's more questions that I haven't thought of, but these are on the top of my list, so far. I've also got a list of carriers I'm interested in, and wanting to contact, but I have no intention of leaving CRE unless it's for a much better proposition.

Interested in hearing from you guys/gals that have passed this one-year period, and have made changes, and how they worked out for you. Good points? Bad points? Suggestions???

BTW, I should add, I just got my Hazmat, Doubles/Triples & Tanker endorsements last month, so I have that option to offer new employers, also.

Also, my "issues": One truck zone violation, reduced by legal wrangling to a parking ticket. One backing incident/accident of about $400 damage (minor scratched a JB Hunt fender) in a Pilot

Is it worth changing carriers? What can I expect when contacting them?

Joe Current solo/company/OTR for CRE

I'm hoping I covered it well enough for those of you with questions to get some answers out of it. Like everything in life, the result of this experience will be exactly what you put into it. If you go, with good intent, study hard, and persist in learning what you don't know, you'll graduate, knowing how to drive a big rig, like me. Those who scoff are blowing wind up your you-know what... I can honestly say that since I just drove this entire winter, in all parts of the country, I've seen several dozen big rig wrecks (probably more), and not a single CRE truck involved. To me, that speaks volumes about their constant attention to safety. Say what you will about the puppy-mill type environment, but, they put decent drivers out onto the road, and they do it fairly quick.

I'll leave it there, for now. I credit this site for having the CDL testing online, since I went to CRE with fairly good scores here, then breezed through things there. It was a definite help, but there I was, getting ahead of the training CRE would offer. It helps, believe me, but it's not everything, either. You have to go, apply yourself, keep yourself clean, do the right things, drive safely, keep good records (elogs are great, as far as I'm concerned...), and stick to it. If you need home time, they have rules set up to ask/receive home time. Otherwise, if you just want to drive, finish your current load, do your empty call, and wait (a short time, usually) for a new load to come across the Qualcomm. It's not rocket science, but it's a huge responsibility to be moving 40 tons down the freeway 20 inches away from another guy moving 40 tons, with lots of 4-wheelers (like flies) buzzing about you all day long (I mostly drive nights, when the loading makes it possible!).

Is CRE as bad as everyone says? No, I don't really think so. I think there are a huge amount of people that may have gotten wrong information, made poor choices, left out pertinent information, or were just not desirable enough for CRE to make them better drivers than they were being... Yes, you can get fired in a moment's notice, if you've violated many of their doctrines, but that's what rules are for; to keep the herd in order.

Are they any worse than the other big outfits out there??? Not sure, but I suspect most of the larger outfits run the same game with miles, training pay, leases, etc. Probably are a few companies that do it different, but it's a big world out there. The one thing CRE can never take away from you is your CDL. You earned it! If they give you the boot, you'll probably still find work with some other company that has less stringent policies regarding accidents/tickets, but, there you go. You might even get paid more for less work, but the bottom line is that this information I've put forth here is accurate, recent, and from the inside. I am happy to be driving / happy to be working (was out for 2 years), happy to be crossing the country every day (almost), and I'm happy that I plowed through the negative stuff I heard, and went to the school and took the job. I've got income, albeit probably only $35,000-$40,000 this year, if I continue with them, and keep driving like there's no tomorrow for them....

I really hope this helps, coming from inside the hornet's nest (physically in the CRE SLC yard right now, on their free WiFi, telling you the story... I hope you can appreciate the irony of that, that they're providing the internet capability for me to write the story of my experiences.

Good luck out there - drive safe - never underestimate the stupidity of others - always watch the opposing traffic, as well as the traffic in front of you - watch behind, too, but remember, there's not much you can do about someone plowing into you, but you need to know who's back there, in case you need to maneuver quickly - pay attention to ALL signs, because there's lots of trucking-related signage along the way - Get Out And Look (GOAL) when backing.... Lots of cowboys out there think their hot stuff, and they'll swing in, and make you feel like an idiot for checking before backing - IGNORE THEM, and check! - last, but not least, enjoy the road! Lot's of beautiful country out there! Cities are congested, but good practice at not hitting anyone... :)

Part III

OK, now you've got the CDL! Time to get sent out on the road with a phase I instructor. Mine was bad news, and I won't elaborate here, but suffice it to say, it was a living hell for a month. I could've jumped ship, but I was bound and determined to get this over with as fast as possible. You have to do one month, or 20,000 miles minimum with the phase I trainer. You'll be driving team with them, grabbing loads and moving them across country, as fast as you can. These are the guys that though they could lease a vehicle, run a business, train newcomers, and still enjoy the drive. Mine was bitter of the lease he was in, and talked constantly about how he disliked the company. He violated the rules I was just taught over and over, etc. We ended up driving 24,000 miles in about 4+ weeks, and when we returned to CA, I was done with him.

My first phase II "mentor" was a surfer dude, very laid back, loving his job, and CRE, and I really like him. He let me drive, without all the nonsense the phase I trainer threw at me. All was fine. I had to reach 30,000 miles with him, to phase out (graduate), but he'd had some tickets, and sadly, we got called back to Salt Lake City, where he was terminated (think they called it disqualified....). He'd had two movers with CRE (missed a weigh station, and speeding in a construction zone), and another red-light camera ticket before he got to CRE. That was enough for safety to take away his wings, for insurance purposes. It made perfect sense, once I knew of the 3rd ticket, but still, he like the company, loved driving, and was really (mostly) very laid back. I'm still in contact with him, since we actually became "friends" in the short time together.

His replacement was another good guy. Not much of an issue with him, but he was a little rage-y on the road, using that BIG horn more than I thought reasonable... Anyway, I got my last miles with him, was taken to Burns Harbor, and phased out in an afternoon. I had a truck by evening, and was now a company driver, over the road, SOLO! Yippee! I actually made it. I had a fleet, a truck, and now had a load of tires to drive to SLC, UT. From there, it's been one load after another, all over the country, just like I was promised. I hadn't asked to go home much, but I needed to keep the wheels spinning to make money, so my biggest priority was to DRIVE!

Was I EVER approached about a lease??? -> Absolutely not... I was surprised, actually, and ready for the pitch. Never came.

Am I overjoyed with the company???? Who ever is???

I don't like the way they pay their miles from zip code to zip code, as opposed to actual mileage driven, even if you stay exactly on their routing, or you use the odometer to track your movements. I figure I've been rooked out of 5-15% on most trips, and have never beaten them at their game.

I did learn how to drive a big rig, though, and that's what they promised me. I'm past my six months with them, so I owe them nothing now for the $3000 schooling (which I heard went up to $5000, but that's hearsay).

Will I stay with them? That remains to be seen. I've had some issues with them that didn't get resolved to my satisfaction, but I've had other stuff that went smooth as glass. I can make a lot more moving on to some other company, but when you figure the benefits package in, it seems like a fairly square deal, though I still think I can make more elsewhere.

Road service - I've had some trouble getting speedy road service (stuck one time for 54 hours, when I only need a tow truck tug me off some snow/ice that I couldn't get out of on my own.... There was a lot going on that weekend, snow wise, so maybe they were busy with wrecks, I don't know...

Safety? - I think they strive to be one of the safest carriers out there, but that's up to the drivers, not CRE. I rate them pretty high up on safety, and have only had to meet with them once for a small backing scrape / my fault.

Driver managers? - I think mine has mostly done good by me. He's my main link to this company, so we're professional with each other. I do my best for him, and I think he does his best for me, though there have been a couple things that were left up to me to resolve.

Detention / layover pay? - I've gotten everything that is due to me, and the detention department is speedy quick, really. The only layover I've gotten is when a load of veggies was refused in PA (not CRE's fault, over ripe, or whatever...). Anyway, the refused load had to be moved to another buyer, and layover was paid to compensate me ($125 for sitting at their dock all day, waiting for them to arrive for night loading/unloading)

The "people, driver's, etc"?? - It's en eclectic mix of people that survive schooling, and the road. I haven't had a single issue with another driver, or anyone with them company. I think most everyone tries their very best, but some fall short. We all have a different experience, though, so I'm not saying anyone at the company is great, or terrible. I haven't had any terrible experiences with them, when it comes right down to it, but maybe others have.

Leasing from them??? - I'd say avoid it, but there are those that think more money per mile is actually more money in their pocket, when they've got a lot of costs of owning/leasing a vehicle to contend with, as well as out-of-necessity needing to drive team, or train. That' wasn't for me, and I made it clear from the start.

Pay - 0.35 cents/mile

Part II

OK, so you've signed up, you've show up, you've sat through the orientation classes, you've taken some exams, you've been introduced to the vehicles, you've been drug tested, you've done some exertion tests, you've even gotten that CDL permit, you've gotten some over the road training, and lots of in-yard training... What's next? Well, of course, the whole time you're there, you are being taught everything you need to pass the in-cab inspection, the air brakes test, and the pre-trip exam, in addition to all of the driving maneuvers and the over the road with an individual instructors (and 3-5 students per truck). You practice this over and over, learning what's required to pass the DMV test. You learn, or you don't. Your choice. Once you've been cleared by your over the road instructor as being competent enough to take the test, you move on to testing. If you're not fully up to snuff, the instructor will give you one-on-one training. I had a ****ens of a time with double clutch timing, since I drove manual transmissions on cars & motorcycles all my life, so I got the remedial training to get the shifting down. I felt like a dummy, but I got one whole day alone with the instructor, driving all over, learning the process... I had actually done a series of youtube videos on double clutching, so I was kind of getting it, but not totally. My instructor was a little miffed that he couldn't teach me this "more effectively", but I'd had 40 years of clutching standard transmissions, and this was something new to me. He maintained composure, though I could sense his frustration. Other people had advanced that I didn't think were ready, so after a day of driving, when he didn't think I could pass, I told him, EVALUATE ME, and he did, and I passed.

Testing day. The testing is done by CRE instructors that are DMV certified. I got the one gruff guy that had the worst rep (Larry, you know it's you....) with everyone, failing most miserably, except the ladies, for some damn reason... Anyway, we moved into the test vehicle and I did the in-cab with ease, then we moved on to the air brakes test, and he was tweaked right away that I WASN'T going to run through the test verbatim, like I guess most do. I explained to him that I don't memorize things, that I learn them, and that I would name each test one-by-one, explain its' purpose, perform the test, and explain my results. He allowed me to continue, and I passed (much to my surprise). We moved onto the pretrip, where I started on the passenger's side of the engine compartment, and after I'd gone through a couple of items, Larry walked to the opposite side of the engine compartment (but, but....). Anyway, I followed him over there and started spouting off what we'd learned, and he again move onto the next part of the truck, and the next, until we were at the back doors, and he said, you already passed. We moved on to the backing maneuvers. I did the parallel and offset maneuvers without an issue, but on my alley dock maneuver, I could see that I was heading for a couple of cones. We were supposed to be able to knock 4 down, so I decided that I was close enough to where I wanted to be, and just mowed the two cones over. I continued the maneuver until I had bumped the dock, but all the instructors had stopped us before this point. I blew the horn to signal completion of the maneuver, but I don't think Larry heard it (distracted???). Sensing he wasn't happy that I bumped the dock, I pulled forward an few inches, and set the brakes, and again blew the horn to indicate I was done. He ambled up and asked me why I hadn't blow the horn the first time. I finished.... Seeing as how I didn't want to challenge him, I just said I thought he didn't want me to back all the way to the dock, and left it at that. I passed. Onto the road test. The first thing he did in the truck was turn on the radio... I was surprised, but wtf... I drove, shifted fine, got around town fine, onto the freeway fine, but getting off the freeway, he gave me kind of a late indication to get off, and there was an on-ramp feeding into the off ramp, I hesitated momentarily, because there was a car bearing down on me from the on ramp, but didn't stop or anything, and he went ballistic. Not even sure what that was about, but he promised me I was failing (threw the clip board onto the dash...). At the right turn off the freeway (we couldn't turn on red), a motorcycle came around the left side of me, and then a car... I kept my calm, and went when the light turned green. A few blocks down, in the early morning rush of people going to work, someone came from my left, down a side street, with slightly excessive speed. I covered the brake and slowed slightly, and that was all Larry needed. Now he was ****ed, and he was driving back to the yard, in a weird drive-of-shame, I guess, since you didn't drive back to the yard yourself. Oh, well. I knew he was gonna be tough. Next guy that tested me passed me without issue.

Damn, I had a long reply all done, and the site logged me off before I could send it... Can't go through all that again.

OK, I'm with CRE, so I can tell you much of what you hear is heresay, although there's truth to some of it.

Puppy-mill = yes (can you say Basic Training???)

People sent home = yes (for ever right reason under the sun, with prejudice)

Forced into leases = A RESOUNDING NO - nobody ever asked me or prodded me to lease... Surprise, surprise!

Company sets people up to fail = NO, people set themselves up for failure by being stupid enough to think they could lease a $100,000 vehicle, run the business behind it, when they don't even have $100 in their pocket. I believe CRE has tightened their lease credit worthiness issues, making it a bit harder to lease. BUT, if you do sign up for a lease, you're going to have to either train or team drive to be able to make payments, pay for fuel, accrue a maintenance fund, etc. Most guys are gutting their paychecks by taking the $50-$100 advance at the pump, then wondering why they don't get a paycheck.... Can you say DUH!

Ripoff Reports / disgruntled people = yes, they got canned for one reason or another, of course they're disgruntled

Unhappy with career choices = probably a ring of truth, since some family men were hitting the road, when they weren't ready to leave their kids/families behind...

If you're a veteran, your obligation to work for CRE is six months. If not, it's nine months. They're helping Vets here, guys!

Once you get passed the driver training applications/testing/physical/drug tests, you'll be standing in line at DMV to get your permit. With your permit, you can get out onto the road, so the next step is that you'll train in the yard, as well as with an instructor over the road, doing backing/driving maneuvers (turns, etc) and vehicle movements on the road and in the yard on a daily basis. You'll start early each day, and be done late, weekends, too, but if you're paying attention, you'll learn how to maneuver big rigs safely in a short period of time. They're not very tolerant of being late, so remember, BASIC TRAINING... You'll get exposed for being late, in front of others, so make it there on time! If you don't you're holding every one else up, so don't be that goof that can't wake up to an alarm, or who stays up late like he was still in high school.

I'm gonna send this, and continue in another post so I don't lose my work....