Schools And Companies

I forgot to mention that I get an extra $850 a month for working an extra day a week, the 30k/yr is before this...

Wow, that was a bumpy, complicated path you took.

I guess the two questions that come to mind are:

1) What made you so sure as a total newbie without five seconds of trucking experience that CR England was not the place to be?

2) When you say your path worked for you, in what way? I mean, you're making a good bit less than most people average their first year, your resume shows you'll jump ship at the drop of a hat which will definitely scare some of the better companies away, and now you have $2,100 to pay back that you wouldn't have had otherwise if you had stayed with CR England (that's after deducting the $1000 sign on bonus from Werner). Not to mention the money you lost changing jobs.

I'm a bit baffled by the whole thing to be honest with you. It just seems like you're spinning your wheels and creating headwinds for yourself by jumping ship all the time. And now you've already devised yet another backup plan for when this job doesn't work out? What exactly is it you're looking for in trucking?

Lol well I guess my post might have been a little confusing.

The point I was trying to make was that my plan from the beginning was to get a CDL from england then get a home daily job with another company. I decided to give england a shot while I was there since I had no experience, but unfortunately I would have ended up owing them money instead of making any. As far as I am concerned cr england was my school/training and werner is my first real trucking job. Doing it this way I have the job I want and got an affordable school out of the deal. I will bring home 40k after taxes and am home every day. I am satisfied with that for a first year. I might make more otr but this is what I wanted and achieved my goal. Conway would have been my first choice but I wanted to drive not work the dock. I will retire from werner in thirty years unless something unexpected happens, thus conway as a backup.

That sounds great! Yeah, ya really want to be careful, especially that first year in trucking. Most people don't realize how fragile your career is at that point. Not many companies want to hire you because you don't have enough experience or a proven track record yet. They want to wait until you have a year or so under your belt so they know you've got what it takes.

The problem is that a lot of companies will fire you for even a minor fender bender. Not all of them, mind you. But some. Say for instance you get in a fender bender tomorrow and Werner did in fact decide to let you go. Now you owe CR England money, you quit that job right out of the gate, and then got fired for a fender bender 6 months in at Werner. Now who's gonna take a chance on you?

You could almost certainly find someone that would, but that's gonna be a long, hard search and you're going to wind up at a shady little outlaw company that wants you to lie, cheat, and steal to get the job done with little concern for laws and safety.

That's one of the reasons I tell people to stick with that first company for a year no matter what. You need that time to learn how to handle that rig, learn how the industry works, and make good contacts within your company so you get good miles and fair treatment.

And beyond that, if things don't go well you have as few blemishes as possible on your resume. Quitting a job or two in your first year looks bad to companies because they know as a rookie you haven't proven yourself to anyone yet and you've barely learned the first thing about how the trucking industry works. And yet apparently you're never happy where you're at. So why would they want to fork out a ton of money to bring you in just to see you bail on em in three months, ya know what I mean?

That first year is a tough one. Your career is far from being on stable ground. The trucking industry has very little tolerance for mistakes and if you make one or two significant ones early on you might find it hard to get another chance.

We had a driver on this board that worked for one of the big carriers. He worked hard, had a great attitude, and developed good relationships at the company. Unfortunately he had a moment of inattention and hit a telephone pole in a parking lot and pretty much totaled the truck. Ya know what the company did? Brought him back to the terminal and put him in a new truck. Why? Well here's the story straight from the driver himself:

How Having A Great Attitude Earned Me A Second Chance

> Yeah, ya really want to be careful, especially that first year in trucking. Most people don't realize how fragile your career is at that point.

My plan was to stay with England for the 6 months once I got there and went through the program. But after the training I decided to ride with a lease operator, and he ended up owing them money, which meant I wasn't going to get paid. I just couldn't stay. I really wanted to stay the 6 months, maybe longer, but I didn't want to end up in the hole like so many other drivers. The trainer I got all the miles with is still doing really well. He has three trucks now, and called me later on and said he'd like me to be one of his drivers because he was impressed with my driving. I assume he meant safe driving not "advanced backing" as I am still getting better at that every day lol. He guaranteed me better pay, but I would have to give up being home every day. I like Werner. I am serious when I say I want to stay with them. Everything I learned here about people skills with the company has paid off. I am a big fan of what you are doing and respect what you have to say. I go out of my way for my dispatcher and he has been MORE THAN FAIR with me.

I appreciate your time and effort. I think you've found your calling in life. I know you have.

[=> ButtonUp <=]

I rode second seat with a lease operator. We made no money. We both quit.

But after the training I decided to ride with a lease operator, and he ended up owing them money, which meant I wasn't going to get paid

Ok, now I think we're honing in on the major snafu here. I'm still trying to get my head around what went wrong for you at CR England that you couldn't stay just a little longer. This is the part that's been puzzling me.

So you obviously weren't getting paid by the mile by CR England nor by the lease operator while you were driving with this lease operator. So I'm assuming you were getting a percentage of the take home? In other words, you weren't working for him or for CR England, you became a business partner with him and for whatever reason the truck didn't turn a profit so you both walked away empty handed. Am I reading this right?

See, the reason I'm digging at this is because I'm trying to figure out what went wrong for you so I can either warn people about things to look out for or alter the strategy I tell people to take. When I say to stick it out for a year no matter what, naturally I'm assuming that people are actually making money. When you said "I rode second seat with a lease operator. We made no money. We both quit" I was completely baffled.

So you and this other driver became lease partners then, right? Am I understanding this correctly?

I appreciate all of the input here as I have just started looking at schools and companies that offer their own training program. I visited two schools today and they were $5010.00 and $6045.00 respectively. Part of the problem is I have very few companies to choose from that offer training as I live in Maine. There are a couple however. I am currently employed so I can afford to take my time. (Mid-life crisis and looking for a career change) Still, laying out that kind of money while trucking company schools are between $3,000.00 and $4,000.00 (and you can work it off) is difficult. I guess I am leaning towards a company school. Why should I use my money when I can “use theirs”… unless I quit early.

I am looking at going to school in May/June. So I guess my question is, is it too early to start looking? I am working on my passport and started studying for my permit. By the way, I love the training materials on this site.

Again, I appreciate any constructive advice I can get!

Hey William, welcome to the forum, I'm confident you'll find some help and good advice here. You've already got yourself off to a great start by using the study materials and you'll realize just how far ahead that propels you when you attend school and see how the other folks are struggling with the things that you are already confident in. I'm not that familiar with Maine nor how that is going to affect your eligibility for hiring on with the trucking companies, but I did want to clarify for you that many of the company sponsored schools will put you up in their company provided lodging whether that be dormitories or in some cases fairly nice hotels. As long as you can bring enough money to eat on and survive for a few weeks, then depending on where you go you usually can start drawing a paycheck by that third week. There's nothing wrong with starting your research now, you may find something that just suits your situation and needs while your getting yourself ready to make the jump over into a new career. Check out the Company-Sponsored Training on this web site it will give you a better idea of the kind of things that are available to you. There are a lot of companies looking for drivers and some of them are willing to go the extra mile to get you on board. Best of luck to ya, and if there is anything we can do to help you with just let us know.

William, you also have some other options open to you, if your a veteran....so if you are, check into that. And theres alot of community colleges that offer CDL training. Be sure that they also have companies lined up to hire you, or will accept your application. Like Old School sez, you can save up your $$ for your costs while your in school, then drive for a year for the company that you got training from, and your set up perfect ot go with any company you want !! We all preach about staying with your company for a full year. It does a whole bunch of things....You get your school loan paid off, you get a full year of experience, which is usually what any trucking company expects you to have to be hired. And it shows that you have the ability to STICK WITH IT, cuz that first year has a learning curve like a speed course for the Indy 500. If you come thru a year with no boo boo's, no wrecks, tickets, etc...you can apply to any company you want and expect to be hired. So there are some benefits from going to a company school....but choose wisely...cuz your gonna drive their truck for a year....

So you obviously weren't getting paid by the mile by CR England nor by the lease operator while you > were driving with this lease operator. So I'm assuming you were getting a percentage of the take > home? In other words, you weren't working for him or for CR England, you became a business partner > with him and for whatever reason the truck didn't turn a profit so you both walked away empty > handed. Am I reading this right?

Once I got to the school and decided to work 6 months I wanted to be a company driver. They kept telling me to lease, and horror stories about people being on indefinite waiting lists for company driver positions. I learned later this was not true as at least one of the people I went to school with started as a company driver, in a program I was told by placement no longer existed.

I am not trying to spread negativity about England as not everyone has the same experience, this is just what happened to me.

So after my final training where I was paid .12/mile maybe .13 I don't remember, I had to chose to lease, "wait in line" for a company driver position, or sign up as a second seat (still a company driver) to be assigned at .14/mile to a random truck. I misunderstood the options, as I chose to ride second seat with a fellow student-turned-lease operator for .14/mi. We went through school and first phase of training together. He was an experienced driver with 16 yrs experience and a couple million miles who due to some life circumstances had let his CDL lapse and was returning to the industry. My thinking was I could benefit from learning from him, get the second seat pay, and not have the responsibilities of leasing. I didn't find out until we went to get his truck that by taking this route I was no longer in the employ of CR England and was working for him. This meant I was getting paid by him, not England. I did not co-sign the lease, I was just assigned to his truck, basically getting paid whatever he wanted to pay me, which was the .14/mi we had agreed on.

For a few weeks things went pretty well. I would say average. But then things took a turn for the worse. I basically quit because he chose to quit. Although, to be honest, not getting my .14/mi that we had agreed on, I would have probably left anyway. Keep in mind I technically didn't work for England anymore, I worked for him. Why we didn't get the miles could be because of this or that, but the bottom line was I could see where the situation was heading, and had contacted Werner before I got off his truck. I was sitting in Werner orientation 3 days after I got off the truck.

If I had pushed for the company driver position things would have been different. The mistake was getting caught up in a lease situation. Even though I wasn't leasing, I was teaming with someone who was.

I had mentioned my training wasn't that great. This isn't exactly true. I think I got good training mostly. The problem was my trainers did not have me do any backing. Over 30,000 miles I backed 5 times. The school, I believe, taught me very safe driving, and the backing training I got there set the foundation for passing my CDL and for basically teaching myself the rest, although I have watched a lot of youtube videos and company training videos now on backing which has helped a lot. That, and the fact I do it everyday. I was SUPPOSED to get adequate training per company guidelines, but the trainer pencil-whipped the paperwork.

See, the reason I'm digging at this is because I'm trying to figure out what went wrong for you so I > can either warn people about things to look out for or alter the strategy I tell people to take. > When I say to stick it out for a year no matter what, naturally I'm assuming that people are > actually making money. When you said "I rode second seat with a lease operator. We made no money. We > both quit" I was completely baffled.

If I had followed your advice, and the advice I give people now, and just smiled and ignored the lease-hype, and been patient enough to push for a company position, things could have been different. I knew when I left for school I didn't want any part of a lease. But my second trainer and I did so well, due to his exceptional relationship with dispatch, and the load planners even would call him directly, I experienced first hand how great it could possibly be. The problem was that the guy I teamed up with didn't have this relationship with dispatch, and... well, didn't want any advice from me, as per my experience with the trainer, and we sat a lot. He started looking for ways not to owe me my pay.

I have been trying to perform multiple tasks while writing these posts so my attention to detail hasn't been the best and I think I have been more confusing than I would have liked. The point of my getting involved in this conversation was to let people know that one can start with a company school and if it doesn't work out for the 6 months or a year the tuition may be less than a private school and they would still have options, as well as share a little bit of my personal experience at the company school I went to and my road to eventually fulfilling my goal - which I had from the day I decided to pursue trucking - to have a dedicated route and be home every day. I am still a little surprised I pulled it off. But I had a LOT of help from this website, mainly from reading the blogs before and during school.