Unions ...... Good Or Bad??

That's truly eye opening! How many lifetimes would one have to work to even approach that kind of pay.

Dear Sam C. --- all I've tried to do in my posts was to advocate better terms/pay for the today's truck driver. In the process I've been labelled a cry baby and a communist. So now I am here scratching my head as to how some of you can even think that the distribution of wealth in America today is anywhere near remotely just. America was founded to get out from underneath the hand of British exploitation. Today's exploiters are the corporate managers who squeeze every last red cent from workers hands so that they may indulge themselves in $30,000 suits (head of the IMF) and $6,000 shower curtains (Dennis Kozlowski, former head of Tyco) Yes, I see how I am at fault now for trying to stand up and unite the workers whose real wages have actually declines over the last 20 years. But go ahead, and enjoy your cheap flights and substandard quality chinese goods.

Oh, thanks for the tip on how to become rich! If it were only that easy. I'm not in trucking to become rich, but I am also not in it to be exploited.

Honestly, it's statements like these that help nobody and it's tiresome to listen to. Please ask yourself if something is really helpful before you hit submit. We're trying to have an intelligent conversation and we really aren't interested in that kind of stuff dragging it down.

I have noticed, that instead of offering ways to help solve this problem, the anti union among us, do nothing but attack those that want nothing more than a fair wage for their work. It is even possible to fight for that, and win, without forming a union.

Oh, thanks for the tip on how to become rich! If it were only that easy. I'm not in trucking to become rich, but I am also not in it to be exploited.

That's the problem, it's not easy! You have to be willing to give up everything else in your life to achieve it and most people aren't. They want the big house they can't afford or the new car. If you don't have enough cash to buy something then you can't afford it. Now as for exploiting you, you do realize the only person exploiting you is you right? Nobody made you work for what you get paid but you. You chose to value yourself that low and took the job. I don't blame others for my life. I chose not to go to college, nobody stopped me. If you aren't happy with your life then change it. You are the only person with that power!

"Now as for exploiting you, you do realize the only person exploiting you is you right? Nobody made you work for what you get paid but you. You chose to value yourself that low and took the job."

Thanks for the uplifting words, Napoleon Hill! On the surface your statement seems straight forward and reasonable, but it soon leads down a dead end street where you quickly realize that as a working man many things are NOT in your control, that you are just a pawn in a game of giants. So let me guess, your response to this would be, oh well, you chose to be in that line of work, put up or shut up. And it is this put up or shut up attitude that the ruling class wants you to have, so that they may continue to amass greater wealth for themselves at the expense of the regular working folk. So without you even realizing it, you are actually promoting THEIR agenda disguised as some kinda self-empowerment. And as the current trends continue, our social fabric continues to erode. Many times people are placed in circumstances not of their doing, this is one of those moments not just in trucking, but of the American middle-class. Unfortunately without unity of some sort, we are too scattered to fight. I'm just trying to show you that these problems are real with significant consequences not just for us, but future generations. It's okay to show your humanity once in a while instead of hiding behind a capitalist mentality. You might have heard this quote before; A Capitalist will sell you the rope to hang him with.

The cycle of human freedom, going from bondage to spiritual faith to courage to Liberty to abundance to selfishness to complacency to apathy to dependence and back to bondage.

We are somewhere in the complacency to apathy phase.

I'm going to disagree with you there. Nobody has been placed in circumstances that they didn't control. I don't care what it is, at some point in their lives they chose to go down the path they are on. Because you didn't want to work that hard in school you didn't become an honor student. Because you weren't an honor student you couldn't get a scholarship to college. Because you didn't get a scholarship you couldn't afford college. Do you see where this is going? You chose everything in your life! So why should the person who worked hard to get ahead have to give you some of the money he worked his ass off for? Don't make excuses for your life. Learn from your mistakes and work at getting ahead. I chose to drop out of high school because I wanted to party and not get up in the morning. I chose to get my ged instead. I chose to not go to college and instead work at a brick yard. I chose to turn down or accept every job I've ever had in my life. I've also chosen to never work for under what I felt I was worth. Did it keep me unemployed for longer than I would have liked? Yes. But it also kept me in the range to afford my bills. I chose to put 30% of my pay into savings, did it mean I couldn't afford cable or a nice car? YepYep, but I bought a house cash at age 26. I continue to choose to put back 30%. Do I have new cars? No. Do I have cable? No. Do I take big vacations? No. Will I have a million when I retire? Yes. Will my son get a better start at adulthood because of it? Yes. Will he know how to add to what I leave him for his own children? Yes.

Sam C. ... I agree with a lot that you are saying, and I like the fact that you take responsibility for your own actions. I think where we do depart is thinking that those at the top are benevolent. You seem to think that those at the top worked so hard for it and that I am asking them to give me some of that. That, my friend, is not what I am saying at all. The whole worker-management relationship has been broken over the last 25 years or so. Those at the top continue to keep increasing their earnings, while those at the bottom keep taking home less and less. This is bad news for the country as it weakens the social fabric of the nation. So not only have the decision makers been so hard at work in giving themselves more money, but they also found the time and effort to start to chip away at the little guys stake. This is where I am coming from, it's not about personal decisions, it is about those with power over you that have abused that power to the disadvantage of this great nation. Hopefully you can see where I am coming from. While I am happy for your own personal situation, please don't use that as a template to overlay on the world.

Safe driving.

It's the same thing. Yes the rich are getting richer. Why is that such a bad thing? The brick yard I worked at for 10 years was a union and I loved the money I made but personally hated the union mentality that everyone was worth the same. When the owner sold the company to a Chinese company simply for our customer list and closed our doors and we all lost our jobs it sacked. Was I ****ed that I lost my great paying job? YesYes! But did I understand the business of it? Yes. I would have done the same thing. Why pay someone 20$ an hour to do what someone will do for 10 cents an hour? It's good business! And yes even people who are born with a silver spoon still had someone in their family work hard to get them there. Money doesn't magically appear. Somebody worked hard for it. I understand your problem that the poor keep getting poorer but that's not the fault of the rich. It's simply supply and demand. If people refused to work for low income then the owner would have no choice but to raise the starting pay. But if they are willing to work for low income why then would he up the price. This is America! EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO BE AS RICH AS THEY WANT. once again, if you want to stick it to your company, quit. That will show them that you refuse to work for what they are offering. But you can't get mad that someone else is willing.

DSH69 ... you possess a really toxic and ill-informed view of the world

"I love it when people bemoan corporate fat cats. Move up or move out."

--- so what you are saying by this is that you enjoy seeing other people being taken advantage of ... you are one sick individual that perhaps no amount of reading and education can correct.

Just for the sake of simplicity, I will state that making a profit is not unamerican, taking advantage of your workers in pursuit of that goal is however very unamerican. And 5% margins are the going rate? Did you pull this out of you ash like you did all your other comments?

And what is your problem with people that 'flip burgers' for a living?

I don't have a problem at all with people that 'flip burgers' for a living. I have a problem with people that think it's worth $15hr.

My view is not toxic at all. I'd say it's pretty much mainstream as union membership has been dropping like a rock. Informed folks see unions for what they are - out for themselves.

Most industries work on very small profit margins. You picked the tech industry. Why? Find me something in retail or food. Or trucking.

I'll wait while I pull more of your ideas out of my ash.

I learned in my first year of HS (1962) in Economics 101 about the Law of Supply and Demand. Labor is just another commodity so the only way wages can go up is when there is a shortage of Laborers.

Unions are a way of restricting laborers in a particular trade, but with deregulation and right to work States, that went away. Technology, automation has dumbed down the requirements of a lot of jobs.

Even Technical IT, Programing jobs have been out sourced over Seas or allowed importing of Skilled Visa workers to water down the pay scale of even those jobs.

Forced minimum $15 an hour jobs is just only going to end up with more automation and less workers.

What ever the CEOs at the top make $$$, won't change the fact of to many workers chasing to few jobs. Having a Union or not won't fix the problem. How hard you work for, or how many College Degrees you get won't fix the Big picture.

Our manufacturing and technology jobs our being done over Seas as I said before. Truck driving is basically a service job that can't be exported and has to be done here. Problem being Union or not,,, there is a surplus of workers..

Like or not, we Have to restrict workers from coming into our country,,, a Border fence isn't the problem, we just need a positive worker ID (Biometrics Ect) to prevent illegal workers from The work force.

One of my favorite books is "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair, about an immigrant working in the Chicago meat factories at the turn of the century. Anyone who hasn't read it should; it's an excellent novel regardless of your political stance or feelings about unions. Public outcry after it was published led to the establishment of what would become the FDA. Sinclair famously said of the reaction to his book "I meant to hit the American people in their hearts, but I missed and hit them in the stomach."

Other than that, I have nothing valuable to add to this discussion.