Unions ...... Good Or Bad??

if we carry your line of reasoning to its fullest, we will be left with a dictatorship.....Concentrating economic power in the hands of a few leaves all of us worse off, would you agree?

These are the concepts about a dozen people have tried getting across to Sam for days now and he just doesn't get it and he's not going to. In fact we ruined this conversation about two days ago and wasted our time ever since trying to explain to him what seem like some awfully basic concepts to most of us.

He doesn't seem to have learned any lessons from the history of labor and slavery in our world at all. He doesn't seem to realize that slavery came about because that's what some people will do to other people if you allow them to. He doesn't understand that unions were created because workers were getting killed in dangerous conditions and being forced to work 70+ hours a week for poverty wages because that's what some people will do to other people if you allow them to.

He doesn't seem to understand that European kings and dictators, rulers like Hitler and Stalin, and Southern plantation owners in this country in the 19th century all ruthlessly exploited and destroyed the lives of the people they governed because that's what some people will do to other people if you allow them to.

If people like Sam made decisions there would be no U.S.A. in the first place. 500 years ago in Europe people lived in poverty under the rule of ruthless kings who suppressed every aspect of people's lives. The people couldn't own much of anything, they couldn't improve their place in life, they had no say in how things were governed, and they couldn't even pursue their own religious beliefs. There were a handful of people at the top that owned and controlled everything while the rest of human civilization lived in poverty and filth.

If we were having this conversation in 16th century Europe Sam would be saying that the Kings worked harder than everyone else so they deserve to have everything. Everyone else should just shut up, accept the fact that they're worthless peasants, live in poverty, and revere the king. Fortunately people understood that there were in fact plenty of resources available in this world for most people to live great lives and there was no reason to let a few prosper at the expense of the rest so they did something about it.

Sam, you don't just sit back and let people abuse you. You don't watch a woman get beat up and say, "Oh well. Men are just stronger so that's what women get." Someone has to find the strength to stand up for that woman.

You don't watch a person be sold into slavery and say, "Oh well. The slave owner worked harder so that's what the slave gets." Someone has to find the strength to free that slave and prevent that from ever happening again.

You don't allow 10 men to make $10 million each off the labor of 3,000 workers who are all forced to live in poverty. Someone has to find the strength to make sure the workers also thrive from the fruits of their own labor, not just a few men at the top.

Good people have to stand up and fight for a fair and just world because there are sociopaths that will take it all away if you let them. Don't you understand that? You need police to make sure our streets remain civil. You need the military to make sure our country remains sovereign. And we need unions to make sure workers have reasonable working conditions and fair pay. You need laws and contracts written and enforced by good people if you want a fair and just society to flourish. You can't just sit back and let these abuses take place.

Sam, whether you realize it or not you have the freedoms and opportunities you have because courageous, hard working people stood up to ruthless dictators and fought for those rights. Good people refused to accept living in poverty and suppression and instead fought to secure and protect the rights we have today from those who would take them away if you let them.

Sam, this industry has become more about control by government policy and money in the form of political kickbacks and bad decisions more than anything else. Inefficiency is a very small part of the problem as you have claimed. Technology has made some outstanding advances but it seems odd that you would even consider being a professional driver since you know everything and have determined that all of us are mere idiots in comparison to your supreme intellect. You remind me of Q from Star Trek to be honest, you know something about everything and nothing about anything.

To prove my point about regulation and policy along with massive money grabbing, you can look right at DPF and DEF systems. They're mandatory on all new trucks, they were pushed for by the state of California under the guise of protecting the environment and the system itself is produced by one manufacturer and forced on the industry. Until they realized, oh crap. Burning horse and pig **** is now adding carbon monoxide (a gas that was once miniscule in diesel exhaust) and nitric oxide (a gas which was never in the exhaust previously and while it's good for humans, is toxic to the environment) to the emissions. CARB has now filed with the EPA and shown that they were wrong and with their hasty move toward control, done more harm than good.

There are a lot of extremely intelligent people in this profession but it's people like you who think we're all cavemen and need to control our every move that are making it more difficult.

Oh and please feel free to search out every manufacturer and producer of everything you wear, use and eat every day and then go pick it up yourself. Without us, it wouldn't be on the shelves for you to go buy at the local store.

Corporate greed will ultimately kill this industry, just look at Arrow.

It wasn't just corporate greed that killed it. The son assumed that money would just keep rolling in, or thought that the money in the bank account, which was probably from YEARS of hard work from the father, was something that occurred on an annual basis.

Dave

Corporate greed will ultimately kill this industry, just look at Arrow.

It wasn't just corporate greed that killed it. The son assumed that money would just keep rolling in, or thought that the money in the bank account, which was probably from YEARS of hard work from the father, was something that occurred on an annual basis.

Dave

I didn't look far enough into it, to see that it was the son. That seems to happen a lot, in this industry, the children mess up what the parents built. Sometimes it is salvaged, other times a company goes belly up

Glad to see this topic did so well and hopefully it may have helped and informed others as it did myself.

I wish we had unions....at least when I went to the home terminal and look at a 14 million dollar bs building where the only topic of concern is fat free salad dressing......I see were the money is being taken from the actual drivers who pay for that ego structure. Do not get me started on the companies corporate jet......

I would like a decent wage.....like was said earlier ......decent retirement and decent health care and working conditions....... Right now the trend is team driving....oh and guess what....companies are looking to the south to bring teams that are happy to work splitting 25c per mile.......... So yea....think you are gonna compete with Pedro and Jose????? Sure you are........

I wish we had unions....at least when I went to the home terminal and look at a 14 million dollar bs building where the only topic of concern is fat free salad dressing....

I'll give ya that one. Corporations certainly do spend inordinate amounts of money on unnecessary garbage.

However, the rest of your rant is a throwaway as is the norm when people are frustrated.......

I would like a decent wage.....like was said earlier ......decent retirement and decent health care and working conditions.......

If you're in trucking with one of the major carriers then you certainly have all of that.

Right now the trend is team driving...

No, it's not. I got into trucking in '93 and back then there was no shortage of people who were convinced there would be nothing but team driving before long. Never happened. Isn't going to. The overwhelming majority of freight out there is not conducive to team driving which is why the overwhelming majority of drivers are solo and will continue to be.

oh and guess what....companies are looking to the south to bring teams that are happy to work splitting 25c per mile.......... So yea....think you are gonna compete with Pedro and Jose????? Sure you are........

That one you really pulled out of the dark reaches of your *ss. We're not competing with Mexicans and no, there's not a trend to bring them here to drive. Again, for 25 years I've been hearing people say that Mexican driver are about to take over the American trucking industry. Hasn't happened, isn't going to.

I believe you're going to see the rise of unions again sooner than later if the government doesn't continue to hand out massive amounts of freebies to those at poverty level and the lower middle class. There is a painful shortage of jobs nowadays that pay a living wage and the only way a lot of families are keeping their homes and cars is with tax breaks and handouts. No question about it.

But trucking is actually one of the last blue collar jobs you'll find that pays a decent wage. We have plenty of drivers here that are getting home on weekends or even more often than that and they're making $50,000 - $60,000 or even more. We have several that I know are making in the area of $70,000 without a union. So you can still drive a truck and pay your bills. But most of America is getting crunched pretty hard these days since the decline of the unions and good paying blue collar jobs. No question about it.

Corporations are showing higher profits and more cash on hand than at any time in history. The top executives take home a higher percentage of revenues than at any time in history. It's in the data. This is not anyone's opinion. I'd love to see something done about it but historically the unions were the only way change of this sort was ever really effective.

Ok the Pedro and Jose comment were out of ......there...

Teams are continuing to be pushed........I told a company I would not do teams.....they are not interested in solo drivers, although their "employment" ad stated different.

I would love to make the equivalent wages that were in the 70's. "Blue collar" workers like plumbers and electricians seemed to have progressed. I hear the oft quoted shortage of drivers.......Actually according to the law of supply and demand......drivers should be making more not less. The reason why companies hire all the time is because the majority of drivers get tired of the companies low wages, benefits and are treated like .....well treated poorly. Myself, I left to drive for a smaller two truck company because that owner is interested in how the truck is running, how I am doing and what can he do to make things work. At this company I am much happier than I was before. Less stress and someone has my back! I have no plans for changing.

There are a few companies that are not hiring.....gee I wonder why? They pay above average, the drivers are generally pretty happy with the company.

As a last aside...it is cheaper for the big companies to have the revolving door of hires than it is to pay appropriately. They hire only the finest bean counters in the land .....they follow the profit.

Oh man, now you're gonna do the "large companies are no good" thing? Man, I'm gonna spend the entire rest of my day dispelling every trucking myth you can throw out there I guess.

The large companies are often the only ones that will hire inexperienced drivers and will often pay a little less in the beginning, especially if they go through a Paid CDL Training Programs, in order to recoup some of the tuition. But wouldn't you expect that?

However, the larger companies also have a ton of perks, outstanding equipment, frequent raises, and a ton of great opportunities like high paying dedicated fleets for the drivers that stick around long enough to earn those positions.

And the idea that you're treated better at a smaller company than a larger company or that a larger company doesn't care how the truck is running or how the driver is doing is once again utter BS. Over the years I drove every type of truck imaginable for every size company imaginable from 5 trucks up to over 5,000 trucks. The large carriers were the better jobs by far. They paid more, they had better equipment, more resources behind them, national accounts nationwide for tires, repairs, lumpers, hotels, and towing, and a ton of various opportunities in different divisions. I mean, the list goes on and on. It was just so much nicer at those places.

If you like your new company then you've found a good home and that's awesome. But to insinuate that smaller companies are better than larger companies or that the large companies don't care about you - that's just utter BS.

You have to remember something also. Most people start out at the big carriers and as rookies they are totally clueless when it comes to how this industry works, how their company works on the inside, how to manage their time efficiently, and how to make things happen out there on the road. You might feel like your current job is less stressful and a better place to work but I'd bet a million bucks you were the cause of a lot of your own grief when you first started in this industry at a larger carrier and you didn't even realize it.

We have no shortage of new drivers that come through here blaming their company, criticizing other drivers, and making a mess of everything they touch and yet they somehow seem utterly oblivious to the fact that they're the ones screwing anything up! They're the ones that are handling things all wrong, have the wrong expectations about what this job entails, and haven't been given the big miles, better freight, and special perks the top tier drivers are getting because they haven't earned them yet.

Now that you've learned your trade a little better, learned how to manage your time, and learned how to make things happen out there you feel like you have it better than you did before. But if you were doing a great job but weren't treated well where you were at then you should have figured out why that was. Because I worked for a number of large carriers over the years and I was always treated great, had beautiful equipment, averaged 2,800 - 3,200 miles per week, and was given all kinds of special perks and opportunities at better divisions that most drivers didn't even know existed.

And remember, you're at a company with two trucks, right? What happens when you need a few extra days or a week off? They lose half their company! When you're one of 5,000 drivers and you need a week off the company can absorb that and continue on without even noticing.

I worked at a company with five trucks and my cousin was the terminal manager that hired me. He's a super great guy who ran the place well. All of our freight was dedicated auto parts freight so we knew our job well. It was a good place to work. The job was so boring I wanted to gouge my eyes out but that's just the nature of that particular freight we had. But the experience at that workplace was a good one.

I also spent six years at US Xpress and that was the best job I ever had. They had a little over 5,000 trucks at the time. I don't have one single solitary bad thing to say about that place. They owners genuinely care about their drivers and their equipment and I was treated well.

So it's not the size of the company that's going to make the difference as much as how well suited the job is to your tastes and how good of a job you do as a driver. Because make no mistake about it, better drivers are treated better than lousy drivers. That doesn't mean lousy drivers are abused per se, but they certainly don't get the great miles and special favors the better drivers get.