Unions ...... Good Or Bad??

Youre dodging the question here, Brett. You listed income for top executives at non union companies. DSH69 asked what is the top executive pay for unionized companies, and for good reason

First of all, I listed the salaries for YRC which is a union company. Second of all, I said I don't mind that management makes a lot of money as long as workers get a fair share. Thanks for the attitude though.

ok, so lets say your the CEO of a major trucking company, you want driver pay to be raised, how do you do that? What polices can you cite that would guarentee increased driver pay? So, because were dealing with a corporation, we have a limited resource pool to draw from. What areas do you cut to insure drivers pay?

I'm a little confused by a lot of this but the last part asks "what areas do you cut to insure driver's pay?" I think you're asking where is the money going to come from to give the drivers a raise?

Well you have 5 guys at the top making $20 million between them so there doesn't seem to be a shortage of funds for pay, wouldn't you say? It just seems that the overwhelming majority of the profits are going to 5 people and the rest gets disbursed to the workers in small sums.

If that's not what you're asking then please restate the question.

Unions are a good thing. My wife works for a union and they take care of us. I work non-union and I am just a number, and as long as my number is cheap they are happy at the top. We only get at most a 5% raise every year, most of the time it is just a 3.5% raise. Let's do some math here I make 13.93hr if I get a 3.5% raise that means I will make 14.41hr. My wife on the other hand makes around 18hr within 3 years she will be making close to 40hr. The point I am making is a union will pay you a liveable wage, most non-union companies pay you the bare minimum that they can pay to fill the position

I wasn't going to jump into this conversation, but it looks like there is too many misguided opinions here. Unions are a good thing as they are there to REPRESENT the workers. Usually, management will try to get away with paying their workers the bare minimum, while trying to pay themselves as much as possible. Who wins in this situation? Would you go to court without a lawyer representing you? Then why would you work for a company where no one represented YOUR interests?

Henry Ford paid his workers a decent salary so that they could afford the cars they were producing. He was a true pioneer and leader. Unfortunately many of todays CEO's (notice I did not call them leaders, as they are anything but) lack that kind of insight.

Brett is absolutely right. We have a truck driver shortage due to the absolutely abysmal pay being offered, and this low pay is the result of the trucking industry as a whole not being unionized.

And let me say also, so no one thinks I'm like neurotic about it, that there most certainly is such a thing as an abuse of power in union management just like there is in corporations. Naturally that can happen, and it has. But that shouldn't make you so cynical toward unions that you can't see the obvious need behind them and the obvious benefits if they're run properly.

Here's what I'm saying:

1) Think about the concept of worker representation. Doesn't it make simple and obvious sense that workers should want to be represented as a whole to management? Think of the value that the entire workforce as a whole provides to a corporation versus the value of a handful of executives at the top.

Do you really think life will be better for the workers if you give management unlimited power over all things with nobody to answer to as long as they're not breaking any laws?

Do you really think workers will get their fair share of the profits when management alone has 100% power to determine how to pay out the profits to everyone, including to themselves? Like they get to take what they want and then give you what's left over. That sounds like a winning strategy for the workforce?

I don't think so.

2) Just look at the numbers. Again, it's kind of simple and obvious to see that union workers have almost universally made way more money, had much better benefits, had more say in operations, and had better job security than non-union workers as a whole. I mean, how could it be any other way? What magical force would allow all individual workers to negotiate better pay & benefits individually than they could as a whole? What magical force would cause the conditions in the workplace and job security to be better if you left all decisions completely up to management than it would if you allowed workers to have a say in things?

So I have no problem with people saying they had a bad experience or heard bad things about some unions. There have been some unions that were run by crooks over the years. Nobody is denying that. But that's an aberration. You can't deny that workers generally have it better when they have strong representation in the workplace by a well run union. The concept alone of needing such a thing is just kind of obvious.....you don't provide the value that an entire workforce provides to a corporation without having a say in how things are run. And you don't let half a dozen dudes run the place like it's some maniacal Monopoly game, because they will. They'll take everything they possibly can for themselves and give everyone else just enough to keep them around.

Brett, I wouldn't be so skeptical of unions if they didn't endorse politicians from one party ALL THE TIME, or almost all the time.

The AFL-CIO endorses Democrats over Republicans most of the time. Most Democrats are anti-energy and pro-illegal immigration, which is another reason why wages have stagnated and fallen.

Dave

Brett, I wouldn't be so skeptical of unions if they didn't endorse politicians from one party ALL THE TIME, or almost all the time.

Ok, fair enough. Then does that mean you analyze all of the people you do business with that way? Your auto insurance - what party do they back? Your life insurance, your bank, your grocery store - are you clear on their political motives, the issues they support, and the candidates they back?

Because to me it wouldn't make sense to care about what political bent your union has if you don't apply that priority to all the businesses and people you associate closely with.

Brett, I wouldn't be so skeptical of unions if they didn't endorse politicians from one party ALL THE TIME, or almost all the time.

The AFL-CIO endorses Democrats over Republicans most of the time. Most Democrats are anti-energy and pro-illegal immigration, which is another reason why wages have stagnated and fallen.

Dave

That's right blame illegal immigrants for all the countries problems. 😱

I just think it's their job to represent me to the company. They can go home and vote for anyone they want in the elections, as long as they're on my side when they're speaking with management.

Im shocked it took this long for politics to enter this discussion. Now we just need religion to weigh in and we can call it a day.

I have read many accounts on this forum of truckers being terminated for various things. Workers and their families losing that vital means of support. It is too easy for a company to fire a trucker. Too costly to that driver to get legal representation to fight the unfounded termination. So the driver attempts to move on to another company. But finds non-factual information on their DAC and no one will employ them. If they had a union, these things would happen less and workers wouldn't have to be in constant fear of losing their jobs. One of my co-workers once said to me, "If you just go to work and do your job, then you wouldn't need a union." Amazingly, he was very vocal against our union. Until the day he was called in for a disciplinary hearing of his own. This co-worker was a retired police captain now working as a bus driver. After the new union took over he became one of the shop stewards.

I have also seen other forums and articles telling of sexual harassment in it's most violent extremes. Who is the one that is fired usually? What do the companies usually do with the perpetrators? Who holds these companies accountable to protect their workers? What is wrong with wanting to be safe while working with a trainer? Do you really believe these women and other groups filing the class action lawsuits have nothing better to do and just want to get big bucks off these companies? Don't you think a union would make sure the company was protecting their workers?

There are many more aspects to the positive reasons of unions besides just your wages, although that is also a good reason.