Unions ...... Good Or Bad??

DSH... what the shareholders fail to recognize is that the better their workers are- the quicker the work, the harder the work, the more efficient they work, results in more money in their pockets. You can strip away worker benefits only so long and then you're left with a shell of a workforce. Build them up instead and feed the results back into the workforce and you're only limited by how many physical resources you can acquire and how efficiently they get used and recycled.

Shareholders don't care about the minutia. That's why they pay the executives to make those decisions.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to be on the receiving end of a huge pay raise and bust my ass for a business. However, labor is the largest expense of any business. Where does the trimming end and the rewards begin to make the business thrive? And then you have to pay for government regulations which further restrict your ability to pay your workforce and earn money for the corporation.

I think your just upset that UPS wouldn't take you

DSH... what the shareholders fail to recognize is that the better their workers are- the quicker the work, the harder the work, the more efficient they work, results in more money in their pockets. You can strip away worker benefits only so long and then you're left with a shell of a workforce. Build them up instead and feed the results back into the workforce and you're only limited by how many physical resources you can acquire and how efficiently they get used and recycled.

Shareholders don't care about the minutia. That's why they pay the executives to make those decisions.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to be on the receiving end of a huge pay raise and bust my ass for a business. However, labor is the largest expense of any business. Where does the trimming end and the rewards begin to make the business thrive? And then you have to pay for government regulations which further restrict your ability to pay your workforce and earn money for the corporation.

I think your just upset that UPS wouldn't take you

LOL! Not at all. I don't have 10 or 15 years to waste part-time working for UPS to get one of their jobs. Once you finally get in they pay you well. Until then - you're a serf. Not bad if you're in your 20s.

DSH... what the shareholders fail to recognize is that the better their workers are- the quicker the work, the harder the work, the more efficient they work, results in more money in their pockets. You can strip away worker benefits only so long and then you're left with a shell of a workforce. Build them up instead and feed the results back into the workforce and you're only limited by how many physical resources you can acquire and how efficiently they get used and recycled.

Shareholders don't care about the minutia. That's why they pay the executives to make those decisions.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to be on the receiving end of a huge pay raise and bust my ass for a business. However, labor is the largest expense of any business. Where does the trimming end and the rewards begin to make the business thrive? And then you have to pay for government regulations which further restrict your ability to pay your workforce and earn money for the corporation.

I think your just upset that UPS wouldn't take you

In case you don't believe me how many folks you seen on TT that say, "Hey!! I got a job with UPS!!"?

I think you need to meditate. Release some of that hostility. Just sayin

:-) Not me! In a few weeks my training is over and I'll start making $21hr on the dock and $.50 mile driving. Not bad for a guy who's never been in the industry. I'm happier than a pig in scheissa :)

Only thing I don't like about unions is that's not in my job description attitude...

So I have no problem with people saying they had a bad experience or heard bad things about some unions. There have been some unions that were run by crooks over the years. Nobody is denying that. But that's an aberration. You can't deny that workers generally have it better when they have strong representation in the workplace by a well run union.

I'll expand on my earlier answer. I came from a union household. My dad started a local teacher's union in the early 60s, and my mom was right there beside him. Growing up, I had a lot of friends who worked in packing houses and were members of the UFCW. I have a cousin who was president of a state AFL-CIO. I was once deeply involved in politics (but then I got religion and quit entirely ;-) ) and knew many local and state union leaders. There were a few who I believe genuinely cared about their members, but there were many more who were in it for money or power or both. The guys who represented the electricians and plumbers and other trades seemed most sincere. The others - not so much, including my cousin. And the packing houses have worse conditions in them now than they did in the 70s, even though the union is still in there. (And yes, many of the workers are here illegally.)

What should be truckers' natural choice for representation, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Chauffeurs, Warehousemen and Helpers of America, has a well-known history of corruption and criminality. When I was a member, the Justice Department forced most of the leadership out. The local guy who ran things was an international vice president, president of the state organization, and president of 10 locals. He got to retire. He built a $4 million house near Bill Gates, and he used non-union labor to do the work. The elections for the local were a joke, with all of the candidates predetermined by the guys in power. So much for "brotherhood."

I agree in theory that a union would help raise wages and improve conditions for workers. The problem with that theory is that the people who run unions are just like the people who run companies. I don't think it's an aberration when they turn out to be grifters just like many corporate executives. In my experience, that's the norm to a greater or lesser extent. They're facing the same temptations and generally these days are cut from the same cloth.

The other problem for truckers is that organizing them is like herding cats, which may well be why the Teamsters turned into the organization that they did. I'm old enough to remember the truckers strikes in the 70s. They were an abysmal failure in the long run, and it was the independents who struck over fuel prices, not the union guys. Deregulation gave birth to many, many more carriers, so now even if drivers wanted to unionize, there are only a handful of companies where it would be practical to do so. (Funnily enough, some of the greatest drivers on earth bash the "starter companies" and praise unions, having no clue that those are the very companies most susceptible to unionization.) Even some of the union shops have had to take cuts, as discussed in other threads.

Do I agree that the folks at the top of big corporations are paid too much? Hell yeah. Do I agree that drivers should be paid more? Hell yeah! Unfortunately I don't have a solution for either problem, but I don't think that the unions do either. Even if I were less jaded and inclined to believe all the union rhetoric, I can't think of a single situation where workers made big gains by organizing in the last 20 or 30 years, with the exception of professional sports and government employees.

So, while I respect those who are pro-union, I could not join one in good conscience at this point in my life. Politics aside (I don't do politics any more), I don't see any practical way for unions as they currently exist to organize and make a big difference for drivers any more. And for those few carriers that are still unionized, I'd have a hard time handing over money to their leadership knowing what I know about current unions. And since there's zero chance that I'll become a professional athlete or a government employee or join one of the trades, where belonging to a union makes some sense, there's zero chance that I'll join one. I think that would be true even if I were still in my 20s. I'm too impatient to wait 10 or 15 years to get the shift or the route that I want.

Tough choice for the OP maybe, but he asked for opinions. Might as well give him both sides. That's what I love about this forum!

DSH, Why do you think FedEx is going to pay you $21 an hour to ride around on a forklift instead of $14 ?

Hyundai's were the same when introduced here, total POS's and cheap, now look at them! Selling for what American cars do almost. When I worked for Waste Management Refuse, they prided themselves having non-union shops. Well ours finally went union after 3 attempts. teamsters got in after long battle with management. They flew in top guys from Illinois to talk us out of unions. Well, our shop had maybe 30 guys on 2 shifts, the drivers= 200+ mostly all hispanics. Well we had no choice in the shop, but join, it wasnt' oo bad then lol dues were only like $10 to start.

I went to Pepsi, same local and dues were $50......Eventually I moved into private sector and closed my union card

U.P.S I think has 1 thee best union out there. When my nephew was dying from a brain tumor, he would get sick and go back to children hospital and the bill for his stay was minimum $250,000 a pop! Brother barely had to pay any of it.

"Brett, I wouldn't be so skeptical of unions if they didn't endorse politicians from one party ALL THE TIME, or almost all the time.

The AFL-CIO endorses Democrats over Republicans most of the time. Most Democrats are anti-energy and pro-illegal immigration, which is another reason why wages have stagnated and fallen.

Dave"

The reason unions usually vote for Democrats is because the Dems are much more likely to side with unions. Republicans are very much anti-union. While the way unions are run might not be perfect, it is still better than no union. It is very sad and disturbing that the image of unions these days is held in such disdain, our future workers will be even more marginalized if the tide is not reversed soon.

The example given by some people here that their pay is so good at a non-union company is only possible because there ARE unions, and these other shops must compete with them for workers.

Please take the time to think about the reason for unions, they are there for YOU! Yes, some of them are run by a-holes and crooks, but that can be changed. If you do not want to be taken advantage of, you need a union!

God Bless.