Unions ...... Good Or Bad??

DSH, Why do you think FedEx is going to pay you $21 an hour to ride around on a forklift instead of $14 ?

They already are.

I mean why do you think they pay that much ? Because they want to ? Why do you think you are starting at .50 a mile with no experience instead of the .32 or .34 thats common with OTR companies ?

If you are anti-union, you are on the doorstep of being anti-democracy. Allow me to explain.

In a democracy our leaders are chosen by the majority to represent their interests in the affairs of the state. Would you want to give up this representation and have the country run by a close knit group like a family? (Think of Kings and Queens and also modern day dictators, like Assad in Syria or perhaps Putin in Russia) Now ask yourself, how are corporations run today? Very much like an anti-democratic state. They have centralized rule, and the chiefs running the place are put there by whom? Their fellow comrades! How on earth do you think these people will ever give you a fair share of the fruits of the company? Without unions the workers have no say at all in the affairs of the company, at least when it comes to how workers are paid and treated. Unions aren't bad, it's the people that are in charge of it that are. Just like in politics. Is democracy bad? No, just the people that are representing us (and not all politicians are bad by the way, but good ones are hard to come by)

If you are anti-union, you are on the doorstep of being anti-democracy. Allow me to explain.

In a democracy our leaders are chosen by the majority to represent their interests in the affairs of the state. Would you want to give up this representation and have the country run by a close knit group like a family? (Think of Kings and Queens and also modern day dictators, like Assad in Syria or perhaps Putin in Russia) Now ask yourself, how are corporations run today? Very much like an anti-democratic state. They have centralized rule, and the chiefs running the place are put there by whom? Their fellow comrades! How on earth do you think these people will ever give you a fair share of the fruits of the company? Without unions the workers have no say at all in the affairs of the company, at least when it comes to how workers are paid and treated. Unions aren't bad, it's the people that are in charge of it that are. Just like in politics. Is democracy bad? No, just the people that are representing us (and not all politicians are bad by the way, but good ones are hard to come by)

I agree with everything you just said, however. The USA is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. And, other than our current president, this nation has been in the hands of 2 families,recently; The B's and the C's.and the media is helping to make that happen again, it seems. DC, despite the rhetoric, is centrally powered. No difference really, nowadays between R and D. They both bloat thge government with theriur preferred method of spending.

I am a Libertarian, but lean left, on issues concerning labor laws.

Sorry if this sounds like I am being a doosh. It is not intended.

Daniel M. ... first off, that's a very cool truck in that picture! And second you don't sound like a ******. Yes, while the US is a Constitutional Republic as you say, the leaders are still chosen by a democratic process. Now in a business it is even more important to allow workers to have a voice, as the #1 concern for a business, if it is to remain viable is PROFIT. Labor is just an item on the expense side of the ledger. So by it's very nature, a business will force labor costs as low as possible. The only problem with this is that labor happens to be a living and breathing organism called human being. Some leaders will be concerned about the welfare of said labor, like Henry Ford and his willingness to pay his workers a fair wage so that they may be able to purchase his cars, but unfortunately many CEO's today are actually highly-functioning sociopaths that really don't care for workers one bit. Witness the many lay-offs that seem to occur around Christmas. So until people realize our current CEO's for what they really are, the problem will only grow worse. There should definitely be a cap on top management earnings, I think earning no more than 10 times the salary of your least paid employee is more than adequate.

Take care and drive safe.

Mouche, replace the m with a d, and you earn six *

but unfortunately many CEO's today are actually highly-functioning sociopaths that really don't care for workers one bit.

That has always been true of most people heading large corporations. There have been some corporate titans as you mentioned that were good-hearted, fair people who cared about their workers and understood how important it is for the health of the company that the workers are fairly compensated and relatively happy with their employer. But by a long shot these people are scarce at the top of corporations.

One of the many big problems you face today is that the average CEO at a Fortune 500 company only stays at one place an average of 4.6 years. He couldn't care less if anyone at the company is happy or not. His job is to come in, cram as much profit into the balance sheet as possible, rake in $50 million in salary and stock options, and grab another $10 million on the way out as he takes an ever higher paying job somewhere else. If he gets fired, no problem! The $30 million dollar "golden parachute" he'll be awarded for being fired should keep food on the table until he gets his next gig in about a week.

Another huge problem is the growing disparity between rich and poor. There's an interesting article called The Real Reason for the Growing Gap Between Rich and Poor which really highlights just how stacked the deck is now in the favor of the big titans of industry. Here's an interesting excerpt from the article...you'll note several references to the 'lost bargaining power' of average workers:

The more basic problem is that the market itself has become tilted ever more in the direction of moneyed interests that have exerted disproportionate influence over it, while average workers have steadily lost bargaining power—both economic and political—to receive as large a portion of the economy’s gains as they commanded in the first three decades after World War II.

Reversing the scourge of widening inequality requires reversing the upward pre-distributions within the rules of the market, and giving average people the bargaining power they need to get a larger share of the gains from growth.

The answer to this problem is not found in economics. It is found in politics. Ultimately, the trend toward widening inequality in America, as elsewhere, can be reversed only if the vast majority join together to demand fundamental change.

Or for you guys who think everything's just rosy and the unions have no place, how about the title to this article - are you guys happy to hear this:

The Wealth Gap Between Rich And Poor Is The Widest Ever Recorded.

Isn't that just dandy.

Interestingly enough I hear a lot of people screaming, "I hate unions!" for all kinds of reasons, some legitimate and some less so. But I've yet to hear one single idea for fixing the problems we face from the anti-union crowd. I hear, "I hate how union heads vote in political elections" and "I hate college kids running the unions" and "I hate this and I hate that" but not one single statement that starts with "Here's how we can fix this problem...."

It's easy to sit there like a sniper shooting down everyone's ideas and calling everyone stupid. But do you have any answers to the problems we face? That's what I'd like to hear. It's fine that some people hate the idea of unions but we have some serious problems that I really hate too. Like I hate seeing the middle class erode away, the poor get even poorer, more people by the day living off the government, home ownership rates at the lowest level in recorded history in this country, and giant corporations parking hundreds of billions of dollars in offshore accounts while the upper 1% are gaining far more wealth than ever before.

Those are just some of the serious problems that need to be addressed. I'm tired of hearing complaining and criticizing. A ten year old can do that. I want to hear solutions that will get this country back on track.

I appreciate the work unions did in the past to get our working conditions to the point they're at today, however I worked at a place that was union for 2 weeks before I quit because of the politics. Personally, when I go to work I feel that I should "earn" my money, if I have no work to do, I find something to do to help other aspects of the company or find things to clean. When I worked at the union company, they got mad at me for doing things that weren't in my job description because then company would expect us to do it all the time. One day on half hr lunch, supervisor came up to us with only cpl minutes left in lunch to tell us we had to do something after lunch, well co worker got on phone to union rep, who informed company we get to restart lunch break as they talked work while on break. That particular union was 20 dollars a week in dues, but medical, vision, and dental were all included. It was also aggravating that if someone did something wrong that warranted being talked to, or written up the union rep had to be present. Also, every One at that company acted like a bunch of babies, and reminded me of a kindergarteners mentality, you said something I don't like so I'll tell my teacher (union rep).

Hey, I saw the movie "Blue Collar." It's all I needed to know about unions.

http://youtu.be/P1zuIEjgfzI

Dave

I appreciate the work unions did in the past to get our working conditions to the point they're at today, however....When I worked at the union company, they got mad at me for doing things that weren't in my job description because the company would expect us to do it all the time. One day on half hr lunch, supervisor came up to us with only cpl minutes left in lunch to tell us we had to do something after lunch, well co worker got on phone to union rep, who informed company we get to restart lunch break as they talked work while on break. That particular union was 20 dollars a week in dues, but medical, vision, and dental were all included. It was also aggravating that if someone did something wrong that warranted being talked to, or written up the union rep had to be present.

Ok, I must warn you ahead of time that what I'm about to say is said in good humor. It's funny in a way but of course that's because it's also true.

Ya know what I call what you faced? That's what I call a "Very American Problem".

I will present your case to the people. Hopefully I get this right because the people need to know your story. Now would your grim situation be properly described as:

• You were making too much money
• You were doing too little work
• You had full paid benefits
• You were forced to do exactly the job you were hired to do and could not be forced to do anything other than the job originally agreed upon [The crowd begins stirring.....several comments are muttered quietly from the back reaches of the room]
• You had so much representation behind you that you couldn't even be properly harassed at the whims of managers during your unpaid free time [the crowd gasps at this one.....the outrage has been building.....the room is tense!!]
• You were given some extra paid lunchtime as a reward when management broke an agreed upon rule and harassed you during your free time
• You were required to have representation that would both stand behind you and document events if ever a grievance was brought against you so that it was virtually impossible to lose your job or be targeted or penalized for unjust reasons [The crowd erupts with outrage!!.....items fly across the room....a revolt has begun!!! The crowd starts chanting "Stop Treating Us Fairly!! Stop Paying Us Well!! Stop Keeping Your Promises!! Stop Allowing Fair Representation!!.......]

My God man, I know you must be scarred but I'm super impressed that you're still here trying to live your life as best you can and trying to look forward and keep a positive attitude about it all. Not many people could find the courage to wake up each day with so much energy and enthusiasm after enduring that level of fairness, honesty, and justice.

[Brett drops the mic and walks off stage...]

I mean, I'm kidding but I'm not, ya know what I mean? Because I was literally fired one time for showing up to a customer too early. Dispatch forgot to warn me not to go in more than 15 minutes early and I showed up 30 minutes early. I had no clue about any of this. I was never told.

Now this had happened several times already and management said the next time it happens the driver and dispatcher are fired. I had worked for this company for years and had a spotless safety and service record when they routed me to the terminal and fired me on the spot. I literally thought it was a joke for a minute. I knew these managers well and this was so completely out of the blue I was baffled. Luckily, because I had the record I had and allies on my side in operations I was allowed to beg for my job back through a series of six different interviews from increasing levels of management. In the end I successfully begged enough people high enough on the chain to keep my job.

But that's one tiny example of how management can snap their fingers and toss your entire life in the sewer. You're nothing to most of them. They're making millions off your work and you're just some idiot truck driver in their minds. Not to all of them, of course, but enough of them.

Seriously, though, previous generations in this country and most of the world would be delighted to see what our modern labor laws are like and live under today's laws. We have it awesome. And if you know the history of workers from the mid 1800's until now there's no denying how it got that way. But it's slipping away again in a big way. There's no denying it....it's right there in the economic data. The rich have gotten too powerful again and we've lost the balance we had from the late 40's through maybe the 80's or so. We don't need a revolution or anything crazy. We just need to make sure workers get their fair share of the profits and fair treatment, that's all.