Unions ...... Good Or Bad??

I am going out on the crazy limb here...is it possible to take a poll for/against union representation?

Daniel M. ... first off, that's a very cool truck in that picture!

Thanks

I saw it, and had to use it. I love the looks of the Lonestar, and that one is just badass.

Interestingly enough I hear a lot of people screaming, "I hate unions!" for all kinds of reasons, some legitimate and some less so. But I've yet to hear one single idea for fixing the problems we face from the anti-union crowd.

I sorta did, or, at least I tried

I think the problems with unions stems from the fact that they seem MORE interested in I unionizing every job, including paper boy, if they thought they could make a buck off of it.

Seriously, a grocery store cashier and burger flipper should be starting out with the same pay as a truck driver or an RN?

RN's and truck drivers and other jobs that actually require a lot of training, and in many cases MONEY, should NOT be paid the same as a burger flipper.

Dave

I was a member of the Teamsters 25 years ago. I would never join another union for three reasons:

1. The folks who run the union often just take your money and then just play golf with the owners of the company and fail to help you when there's a real problem.

2. Union jobs are usually based on seniority instead of performance, which encourages laziness among the most experienced and puts the burden on the new guys. I'd rather be recognized and rewarded quickly when I outperform someone who's been there twenty years instead of being told to take it easy for fear of making someone else look bad.

3. I don't need anyone to negotiate for me. If I don't like my job, I'll find another.

You'll get strong opinions the other way, I'm sure.

Yea... I have to chime in here. The above statement is very accurate. I worked at GM from 1997 to 2001. In 2000 I was in a tractor accident, an blew out my L5S1 disc. The union tried and tried to get me to say I hurt myself at work... I refused. I ended up being off work for almost 6 months before the company let me come back, and that was only after passing a PT test. During my time off I drew $147/week from the companies short term dis insurance. Every week the union took 100% of their "dues". While I was off, a new contract was voted in. I was allowed (and encouraged) to to come in and vote. Part of the agreement was a $1500 signing bonus. When it never showed up on my check I called my union rep. He told me since I wasn't working, I wasn't entitled to it. HUGE double standard. Every time I tried to call the union office I got hung up on. Their motto was "a fair day's work for a fair day's pay". The only thing I ever saw the reps do was argue with Mgt over trivial stuff, and tell the workers to "slow down... this is a marathon, not a sprint race".

The plant I worked at was 3/4 of a mile long, and had 3700 employees. Now, it's nothing but a overgrown parking lot with a hole in the middle.

The union tried and tried to get me to say I hurt myself at work... I refused

Ya know what's interesting about that? If you take a step back and look at the big picture, here's what I see...

I see a gigantic corporation that had raked in billions in revenues for decades. That corporation was making a handful of fat cats filthy rich and still throwing off enough cash to pay thousands of workers a great wage with great benefits, right? Our manufacturing sector achieved an amazing level of prosperity that started in the 40's, rebuilt the entire world after WWII, and propelled this country at an incredibly young age from one of the world's most dynamic countries into a stratospheric level of wealth and privilege, the highest standard of living human kind has ever seen.

All they were saying was, "Look, man. This corporation belongs to you. You and your co-workers are the ones out there busting your *ss day in and day out to physically produce the products that generated all this wealth. Why wouldn't you reap the benefits of that? You are the one that produced it in the first place! If a handful of fat cats at the top can take home tens of millions a year from your hard work, don't you deserve to have good healthcare, compliments of the company you bust your *ss for? Of course you deserve that!

But you didn't see what they were saying. You didn't see the big picture. You thought of it from a simple level of "It's important to be honest". Yeah, you honestly did do the work that produced the wealth the company has been piling up in offshore accounts all over the world. You honestly did deserve to have them cover your healthcare costs which were nothing more than a tiny speck of a tax write off to that behemoth corporation.

When there is tremendous prosperity at a corporation, everyone should benefit from it. Everyone should get a fair share. Not the same share, mind you. But something's that fair when you look at the big picture. When looking at the big picture, you should have let them cover your healthcare. You did the work that produced their wealth in the first place.

Here are some facts about life in America today:

• American corporations have more cash on hand today than ever in our history
• Home ownership is at its lowest level in history, a figure they began tracking in 1967 I believe
• The gap between rich and poor is the highest it has ever been in this county's history
• Corporate Executives are making the highest salaries and bonuses they ever have made in American history

We were told by corporations that they had to cut wages and move overseas because they couldn't compete. The unions mostly dissolved, tons of manufacturing disappeared, blue collar jobs began paying diddly squat, and now look what we have....the data clearly shows that the upper 1% fat catters got much richer, the corporations are making way more money than ever in history, and the rest of us are poorer than ever in history.

Does this make sense on any level? Of course not. We got duped. So my question is what should be done about it? Should they legislate change? Should unions rebuild? Should we keep our fingers crossed that the fat catters will turn around and suddenly become generous?

Everyone just keeps listing reasons why they hate unions and I understand that. But what do you propose should be done about the facts I listed above, if anything? I mean, I can't imagine we're all happy watching all of the wealth accumulate in the hands of the upper 1% while the rest of us ponder whether we'll be living in a shanty five years from now. That doesn't seem like fun and it certainly isn't sensible or necessary.

So what should be done about it?

The reasons given against unions so far have been peoples direct interaction with the way they are being managed. That it is no reason to be against a union. Just as there are crooked politicians and bad cops, we still need them, just the way we need unions. We don't put an end to democracy just because there are a few bad politicians, then why would you want to do it to a union? Some unions might be run by a bunch of gangsters for the lack of a better term, but the nature of a union is to stand up and protect workers rights and wages. And the reason you need a union is because the inherent nature of a business is to squeeze expenses to the lowest point, and when there is labor involved in a business, you too will be squeezed to the lowest point.

As to Brett's question on what can we do about it, well, the first step is getting people to realize that unions ARE necessary when dealing with labor. The free market economists will be all against this, but then you would not want to live in a world that a free market economy would create. We can use this website to get people to understand what is really happening in the world today and why the trucking industry is the best place to unite and force the citizens and politicians to stand-up and make laws that limit corporate greed.

Just imagine for a second the voice truckers would have if all of a sudden all trucks stopped, even for a few days. You want change? You are sitting in the instrument to make it happen, all we need to do is shut it off for a few days.

We have the way, we just need the will.

From how I read it, HuntinDoug was injured in a non work related incident. And then he was truthful about how he did it.

And while Brett's answer is a great answer, if it was indeed work related, It seems like he said it is ok to lie about it, just get a piece of the pie. The repercussions should he be caught in that lie, would be potentially very very bad.

I can't say that I have been 100% truthful all the time, I have told my fair share of fibs, to get out of trouble, or into a vacant position with a healthy raise, and better benefits, and in hindsight I would not do it again, because Karma still got me, in other ways.

A man/woman is only as good as their word, and the promises they keep. Integrity is everything. 90% of union and 98% of corporate hierarchy is anything BUT honest, and lost their integrity as soon as money became their driving force.

I should add, that imo opinion, wanting a fair wage to take care of your family, is not money driven, because it is to take care of loved ones. Thge motivation being to take care of others, not line your pocket book, just to have it.

It seems like he said it is ok to lie about it, just get a piece of the pie.

Daniel, who the h*ll do you think produced the pie in the first place???? Doug and his co-workers did! Not a handful of suits sitting in meeting rooms. Are you kidding me? Why in the world should a handful of executives take home 95% of that pie while thousands of hardworking men and women split the other 5%?

Oh right.......I'm sorry......I was thinking that since he was working for that rich corporation that he deserved to prosper from it also. I forgot the golden rule though - workers are supposed to be martyrs. Workers aren't supposed to prosper in any way from the wealth they've produced. Only upper management should. Workers and their families are supposed to starve on $147 a week while the top executives live in mansions, ride around in private jets, and take home $100,000 a week made off the blood and sweat from those same workers.

I mean, in what world does that make sense? Am I supposed to feel ashamed if my hard work produces tremendous prosperity and some of that prosperity actually comes back to help me a little bit? Oh shame on me for thinking I deserve a nice life also. Here Mr Executive - take my share too. I know you're already worth $175 million and you're making another $10 million a year on top of that but I wouldn't want to bother you for a little bit of food on the table for my family or a little healthcare during hard times. I'm too proud for that. You go enjoy your trip to the Florida Keys on your yacht. I'll just have the kids eat a pile of beans a drink a lot of water so they don't feel so hungry after dinner.

Wake up people! Think it through a little bit. If you're convinced it's shameful to prosper from your hard work then you're exactly the type of person these big corporations are looking for. Go ahead and bust your *ss to produce great products and services and then starve to death and live in a shanty while a few fat cats take the wealth your labor has produced all the way to the Bahamas on the next of many vacations to come.

It seems like he said it is ok to lie about it, just get a piece of the pie.

Daniel, who the h*ll do you think produced the pie in the first place???? Doug and his co-workers did! Not a handful of suits sitting in meeting rooms. Are you kidding me? Why in the world should a handful of executives take home 95% of that pie while thousands of hardworking men and women split the other 5%?

Oh right.......I'm sorry......I was thinking that since he was working for that rich corporation that he deserved to prosper from it also. I forgot the golden rule though - workers are supposed to be martyrs. Workers aren't supposed to prosper in any way from the wealth they've produced. Only upper management should. Workers and their families are supposed to starve on $147 a week while the top executives live in mansions, ride around in private jets, and take home $100,000 a week made off the blood and sweat from those same workers.

I mean, in what world does that make sense? Am I supposed to feel ashamed if my hard work produces tremendous prosperity and some of that prosperity actually comes back to help me a little bit? Oh shame on me for thinking I deserve a nice life also. Here Mr Executive - take my share too. I know you're already worth $175 million and you're making another $10 million a year on top of that but I wouldn't want to bother you for a little bit of food on the table for my family or a little healthcare during hard times. I'm too proud for that. You go enjoy your trip to the Florida Keys on your yacht. I'll just have the kids eat a pile of beans a drink a lot of water so they don't feel so hungry after dinner.

Wake up people! Think it through a little bit. If you're convinced it's shameful to prosper from your hard work then you're exactly the type of person these big corporations are looking for. Go ahead and bust your *ss to produce great products and services and then starve to death and live in a shanty while a few fat cats take the wealth your labor has produced all the way to the Bahamas on the next of many vacations to come.

I do not disagree with you, Brett.

My line of thinking in this particular instance, follows the line of the consequences should person A get caught in that lie. The potential domino effect could be catastrophic for not only "A," and his immediate stewards, and reps but for the union as a whole.

My guess is, that the union would drop "A" and maybe the person(s) who told him to lie, like a bad disease, in order to protect their interests. "Sacrifice the few, for the sake of the many." Either way, it puts a big dent in their ability to represent the workers at the bargaining table.

The doodoo will always roll downhill, and we, as the current, and future professional drivers, are unfortunately, at the bottom.

Side note: I learned a lot more about unions from this thread than any other source. Lot's of good dialogue here. Great thread.