Unions ...... Good Or Bad??

Great thread.

I absolutely love these conversations! They're always fascinating.

My line of thinking in this particular instance, follows the line of the consequences should person A get caught in that lie

I totally get that. But isn't it shameful that a man whose labor produced so much prosperity doesn't get to benefit from any of it during a time of need for him and his family? I don't care where he got hurt. The man has a family to feed and he's put in years of hard work that filled offshore bank accounts and bought jet aircraft and yachts and mansions for people who weren't even doing the work that produced the wealth in the first place. Now he's hit hard times and his family has to eat beans and beg the bank not to foreclose on the house while those same rich executives continue to drink wine and brag about their private jets on their yacht in Bermuda without a care in the world?

That's ridiculous.

And I don't have this "eat the rich" mentality where no one should be rich and prosper. I understand that Socialism doesn't work and I wouldn't want anything of the sort. I just want to see the workers get a fair share of the prosperity they produce and the numbers clearly show that isn't happening. Not only is that not happening, but we're continuing to slide in the wrong direction. It's getting worse, not better.

HuntinDoug related:

Part of the agreement was a $1500 signing bonus. When it never showed up on my check I called my union rep. He told me since I wasn't working, I wasn't entitled to it.

These "unclaimed" funds are transferred to the Jimmy Hoffa Search Team expenses. Still lookin'!

I totally get that. But isn't it shameful that a man whose labor produced so much prosperity doesn't get to benefit from any of it during a time of need for him and his family? I don't care where he got hurt. The man has a family to feed and he's put in years of hard work that filled offshore bank accounts and bought jet aircraft and yachts and mansions for people who weren't even doing the work that produced the wealth in the first place. Now he's hit hard times and his family has to eat beans and beg the bank not to foreclose on the house while those same rich executives continue to drink wine and brag about their private jets on their yacht in Bermuda without a care in the world?

That's ridiculous

Exactly!

......

The way I see it, is that our industry is probably the best group to start another grassroots "fair labor movement", however we are also probably the hardest to get a solid consensus, because our workplace is all over the place, and not one central area. If the various companies catch wind, they can route us accordingly so we cannot cross paths with the key players, meetings, etc. But we do have today's social media to use for our advantage. The industry NEEDS more drivers than are signing up, and more are leaving than coming in. There will be a critical tipping point, where the companies will be forced to offer better pay, to lure new drivers, and/or keep existing ones. That would be the time to step in, and unionize, to whatever degree, to make sure it benefits the drivers, who are the backbone of this industry. If enough wheels stop rolling, commerce comes to a stand still.

Great Thread, just read it thru and got to see both sides of many topics.

My first official job out of HS in 1966 was at a Factory that custom built Mining equipment, I was a Production Electrician at 18 years old. we had a Union,, United Electrical workers union something or other. We went on strike one time for a couple days, union and management did their thing, few cents raise and we were back at work. Worked there 2 & half years then left for a new job at a fast growing company,,Xerox. It was non union, in the field (Service Technician), they were growing so fast that they paid good and had all the great free bennefits you could think of, so we didn't care about being non union. The point being Skilled (Technicians) Labor was in short supply so the company had to pay good $ and bennefits to aquire a groing labor force. So at different times having or not having a union made sense to me.

Thru this whole thread I only read some one mention DEREGULATION once I think. Before Deregulation Trucking and Airline companies were granted charters/ monopolies for different routes and the rates they could charge without competition from other companies,, If some one remembers better than me, please feel free to futher explain it.

So I think all trucking and airline companies were unionized back then, If a union went on strike, there wern't a thousand companies to take their business.

I remember driving OTR with my race cars in the mid to late 70s and over nighting at truck stops. The union drivers were paid good, wore clean and in uniforms and worked at the same companies till they retired.

Same thing with with the Airlines, big saleries, life time jobs. Problem being the companies were pretty much garanteed a profit even if the trucks or planes flew with less than half a load, I remember flying a red eye back from LA to Chicago with maybe 6 other passengers on board. The fare was like $700 round trip as there were no discount airline competion or discount fares.

I don't know how Deregulation came about , but the result was cheaper transportation cost to the general public. With deregulation, anybody who jumped thru the right hoops could start a new trucking company or airline and go anywhere anytime they wanted. The result was that companies and unions melted away.

Same thing happened to Xerox, FTC gave away our Basic Patents (we had 98% of the copier market). Worked there 35+ years, the last 20 I hated to go in to work as the bean counters seemed to make it impossible to keep all the balls in the air, I think it was by design to make us quit, we were talking about going union but could never get it done.

Solutions ? wish I could say I had some, even if you do vote in a union at your trucking company and got them to pay like they used to, they would end up going broke because there would be a thousand other companies to under cut the rates they would need to charge.

Of course in a perfect world every Driver would be in the Union no matter what company they worked for. Sure if every driver (including Owner/Opps) parked it for 5 days then a Union would have the power to make the companies step up to the table.

We are considered non skilled labor so work Visa arn't avalible for our jobs, think it's bad now, wait till the Govment changes the rules and lets in imigrant truck drivers.....

I don't think it makes any difference anymore if we get a union or not because the root cause can't be fixed by a Union...

Solutions ? wish I could say I had some, even if you do vote in a union at your trucking company and got them to pay like they used to, they would end up going broke because there would be a thousand other companies to under cut the rates they would need to charge.

I don't think it makes any difference anymore if we get a union or not because the root cause can't be fixed by a Union...

That's exactly it. I remember reading here somewhere that 97% of trucking companies have 6 trucks or less. Maybe the stats are off a little, but the point is that even if all the drivers at the mega carriers unionized, the first time they went on strike, every small trucking company would happily jump in and take the freight. There would still be a capacity crunch for shippers since I'm betting that those top 3% of companies have more like 30%-50% of the capacity, but it wouldn't shut everything down. Heck, some of those union drivers might just go into business for themselves. Or worse - some outfit like XPO would put together a deal and buy themselves a giant new non-union mega carrier lickety split and take market share from the unionized megas.

And good luck organizing the 97% of the business that are small carriers. They have so few employees that it would be next to impossible to accomplish.

Deregulation made this world possible. But look on the bright side - the stuff at the store costs less because of it, and you can fly anywhere without even having to put on a suit. I don't think we're ever going back to the old days when there were only a handful of trucking companies. Not only is freight a commodity, so are drivers.

Sorry to open up a can of worms here guys...

Let me elaborate a bit: I'm not saying all unions are bad. I'm merely outlining my only experience with a union. I never had a problem with union prior to this incident. Unions were put in place for a good reason. But, like many large entities, over time it became corrupt. The biggest problem I had with the situation was that the union basically told me exactly what to say about my injury. I chose to tell the truth... That's how I try to live my life. I don't feel that I need to apologize for that. The potential financial gain was just not worth what it would do to my concious. When they (the union) realized I didn't say what they told me to, I was approached by the plant rep and 2 other lower reps. They verbally scolded me (in front of my co-workers) for not "taking advantage" of the situation. It was almost as if I had betrayed them. They even went as far as to ask me who I voted for in the presidential election. They said if I voted the "wrong ticket" not to expect much help from them in the future.

I'm convinced someone else pocketed (stole) my $1500 signing bonus. Contractually it was mine... I din't get it. They wanted to send me a clear message... and it was received loud and clear. They knew I had no one to appeal to. They purposly wouldnt take my calls. So, I had to ask myself the question(s): Do I really want to be associated with an organization that expets me to vote for who they tell me to, expects me to lie when ordered to, then steals from me when I don't?

I left GM less than a year later.

the first time the [mega carrier drivers] went on strike, every small trucking company would happily jump in and take the freight.

No, the small company drivers would be considered scabs. And that's a nasty business.

They even went as far as to ask me who I voted for in the presidential election. They said if I voted the "wrong ticket" not to expect much help from them in the future.

That's another problem I have with unions.

I have to vote for one guy or another because my union rep says so.

Dave