Automatics In Winter Question?

use every opportunity I can to practice

Just watch out for the light poles, dumpsters, and other hazards! Parking lots at night are full of hazards and sometimes they're almost impossible to see. I used to get out and walk the lot really well before I'd do any of that.

use every opportunity I can to practice

Just watch out for the light poles, dumpsters, and other hazards! Parking lots at night are full of hazards and sometimes they're almost impossible to see. I used to get out and walk the lot really well before I'd do any of that.

I was once "practicing" my ability to handle my dad's suv in controlled reverse skidding, in an old Farmer Jack parking lot. Well, that light pole came out of nowhere, and the suv had a brand new V shaped bumper and rear air conditioning.

My driving privileges were revoked for 6months, until I paid for the damages.

I was once "practicing" my ability to handle my dad's suv in controlled reverse skidding, in an old Farmer Jack parking lot. Well, that light pole came out of nowhere, and the suv had a brand new V shaped bumper and rear air conditioning. shocked.png

My driving privileges were revoked for 6 months, until I paid for the damages.

Oh that sucks!

I was going into a grocery store one night and I heard what sounded like a small bomb going off. A car had smashed into a light pole and the pole was swaying back and forth for a bit but didn't fall over. I wasn't sure if it was going to or not. Then the steam started rising from the radiator. Serious bummer.

I was once "practicing" my ability to handle my dad's suv in controlled reverse skidding, in an old Farmer Jack parking lot. Well, that light pole came out of nowhere, and the suv had a brand new V shaped bumper and rear air conditioning. shocked.png

My driving privileges were revoked for 6 months, until I paid for the damages.

Oh that sucks!

I was going into a grocery store one night and I heard what sounded like a small bomb going off. A car had smashed into a light pole and the pole was swaying back and forth for a bit but didn't fall over. I wasn't sure if it was going to or not. Then the steam started rising from the radiator. Serious bummer.

I was 17 at the time. I got all my stupid driving antics out of the way at a young age.

I did get to witness a truck Jackknifing on US 10 between Bay City, MI, and Midland. The plow trucks were even getting stuck. I was putting aloing at 35mph, when aa big green truck pulling a Meijer trailer flew past me, swerved to avoid one of the plow trucks, and a second later thge trailer was sideways. By the time he stopped, I could see his face, whiter than the snow, and later noticed he lost a few days worth of meals out both ends. This was about 1am, and the visibility was 50 yards at best. I remember thinking, I will never drive a truck like that in this stuff...

Love the tales of experience

Putting the transmission in neutral is a good idea. When you start sliding you want to take power away from the wheels to allow them to regain traction. In an automatic there is still power to the wheels when you let off the throttle. Remember they are still in gear and will idle which will still cause the tires to spin. Putting the clutch in neutral will put no power to the wheels. Like said before though, anything can happen when you start sliding and could cause for a different reaction. On that note, drive safe everyone.

Putting the transmission in neutral is a good idea

In my opinion it's not a good idea. There's an excellent chance you're going to need to get on the gas at some point to regain control of the vehicle and you're not going to be able to shift into neutral and then back into gear again when necessary during a skid. There's too much happening too quickly. In fact a lot of times the worst thing you can do is get off the gas in the first place.

For instance, say you have a good bit of weight in the trailer and your drive tires lose traction for a moment on snow covered roads. The drive tires start to slide to the side and the tractor starts to jackknife just a little bit. Your trailer still has all of its momentum so it's pushing forward on the tractor which is no longer pointing straight ahead. If you get off the gas completely or go into neutral at this point and the tractor slows just a bit that trailer is going to keep moving forward and spin that tractor the rest of the way around. You just jackknifed and you're sitting in the middle of a cornfield somewhere. Most of the time in scenarios like this you want to feather the throttle lightly and steer gently with the skid to get those drive tires to start getting some forward bite again so you can keep the tractor's momentum going forward. It's like you're trying to stay ahead of your own trailer so it doesn't spin you around.

Same with a trailer jackknife. Say you start getting on the brakes and your trailer tandems lock up. You see that trailer start to slide out to the side on you. If you get off the gas or kick it into neutral at this point there's an excellent chance that trailer is going to come the rest of the way around and jackknife. You have to get on the gas lightly to stay out ahead of that trailer so it will fall back in line behind you.

Now understand that these are advanced techniques and no two skids are ever alike. There are all kinds of factors that go into the decision about what tactics to use once you start sliding. But those are just a couple of scenarios where you need the throttle to get out of trouble. In fact, in my experience you almost always use some light throttle to help gain control of the vehicle.

Putting the transmission in neutral is a good idea

In my opinion it's not a good idea. There's an excellent chance you're going to need to get on the gas at some point to regain control of the vehicle and you're not going to be able to shift into neutral and then back into gear again when necessary during a skid. There's too much happening too quickly. In fact a lot of times the worst thing you can do is get off the gas in the first place.

For instance, say you have a good bit of weight in the trailer and your drive tires lose traction for a moment on snow covered roads. The drive tires start to slide to the side and the tractor starts to jackknife just a little bit. Your trailer still has all of its momentum so it's pushing forward on the tractor which is no longer pointing straight ahead. If you get off the gas completely or go into neutral at this point and the tractor slows just a bit that trailer is going to keep moving forward and spin that tractor the rest of the way around. You just jackknifed and you're sitting in the middle of a cornfield somewhere. Most of the time in scenarios like this you want to feather the throttle lightly and steer gently with the skid to get those drive tires to start getting some forward bite again so you can keep the tractor's momentum going forward. It's like you're trying to stay ahead of your own trailer so it doesn't spin you around.

Same with a trailer jackknife. Say you start getting on the brakes and your trailer tandems lock up. You see that trailer start to slide out to the side on you. If you get off the gas or kick it into neutral at this point there's an excellent chance that trailer is going to come the rest of the way around and jackknife. You have to get on the gas lightly to stay out ahead of that trailer so it will fall back in line behind you.

Now understand that these are advanced techniques and no two skids are ever alike. There are all kinds of factors that go into the decision about what tactics to use once you start sliding. But those are just a couple of scenarios where you need the throttle to get out of trouble. In fact, in my experience you almost always use some light throttle to help gain control of the vehicle.

I agree with everything you said. Every situation is going to be different. The only thing is though that when the wheels are spinning that is loss of traction and when you apply power to the wheels you lose more traction. That can make the situation worse. Again though it can also help like in the example you gave. But in snow the key to staying in control is traction and the less wheel spin there is the better to regain that traction. Now you do have much more experience than me as most on this forum do. I am new in the trucking world so I am going to take the examples you gave as good advice and hopefully if needed I can control the situation if one is to happen.

when the wheels are spinning that is loss of traction and when you apply power to the wheels you lose more traction....the less wheel spin there is the better to regain that traction

A loss of traction comes from asking the tires to do more work than they can do with the amount of traction that's currently available. That doesn't just mean you're trying to put too much throttle to the drive tires. It can also mean putting too much braking force to the drive tires.

Say you're at half throttle moving forward at 40 mph on snow covered roads and the drive tires break loose under power. If you let off the gas completely the engine compression is going to try to slow the drive tires even without the jake brake on. So the wheels may have broken loose originally because you were putting too much throttle to the ground but you can make the situation worse by letting off the gas completely and putting too much braking force to the wheels. That braking force isn't much of a concern in 4 wheelers because you don't have the compression from a gigantic diesel engine applying that braking force to the wheels the way you do with a big rig. Letting off the gas in a 4 wheeler is more gentle than letting off the gas on a big rig. So lightly feathering the throttle properly will prevent too much power from going to the wheels and it will also prevent too much braking force from going to the wheels.

Now kicking it into neutral or pushing in the clutch would also prevent any engine braking force from going to the wheels. That's a good thing. But if you've shifted into neutral you're now out of gear completely and you're not going to get it back into gear while you're skidding to put power to the ground if need be. If you kicked in the clutch instead of shifting into neutral you would have to have fantastic precision to let off the clutch at the proper RPM and with just a little throttle so that you don't apply too much power or too much engine braking force to the drives if you re-engage during the skid. It's incredibly unlikely you're going to pull that off under such extreme circumstances.

The two biggest differences between a big rig and a four wheeler in a skid is that the big rig bends in the middle and it also has the momentum from the weight of the trailer pushing forward against the tractor when you're off the throttle. So when you're trying to regain control with a big rig you're not going to get the same results from your reactions as you would with a 4-wheeler. A tractor trailer behaves like two different vehicles hooked together. You have to manage the tractor itself, which would behave somewhat like a 4 wheeler would if you were bobtailing, and also the trailer which is anywhere from 15,000-60,000 pounds with all that momentum pushing you down the road if you let off the gas.

I'll say this though.......kicking in the clutch or putting the shifter into neutral is not the worst thing you could do in a skid. It isn't what I would do but I have a ton of experience in big rigs on slick roads. The worst thing you can do most of the time is to overreact and either hit the brakes pretty hard or start sawing on the wheel. You want smooth, gentle reactions. If someone had little or no experience on slick roads and little or no experience in a big rig I would say you might be better off just kicking it into neutral in a skid and hoping you can gently steer your way out of it. That might be a good newbie emergency technique.

Brett explains:

Putting the transmission in neutral is a good idea

In my opinion it's not a good idea. There's an excellent chance you're going to need to get on the gas at some point to regain control of the vehicle and you're not going to be able to shift into neutral and then back into gear again when necessary during a skid. There's too much happening too quickly. In fact a lot of times the worst thing you can do is get off the gas in the first place.

Think of trying to catch a 250 lb marlin with 20 lb fish line. Very delicate, but it can be done. That's what your dealing with on a slick roadway.

On a slick road, every 1/10th second can count, so generally don't mess with the shifter. In any slide you need to monitor and control two operations: the steering, which is probably not doing what you want (and has no power to those wheels), and the drive axles which have the power but just follow along, they have some traction ability and are useful for stopping.

Which is more important? Steering will get you into or out of trouble more than the driver axles. As you slide, foot off the accelerator. Because traction is light or non existent you're actually better off in a higher gear anyway.

Foot on brake just a bit. Turn the steering toward the direction you are heading regardless (almost) where that is. If & when you feel traction, use more breaking (20 lb line, remember?) and then work to control the direction you are heading.

There is a YT video of a Swift truck crossing an icy bridge then jackknifing into the center divider. If you watch, the driver actually steers correctly, but the right front wheel catches a non slick spot and the truck is doomed.