I Need Help Slowing Down

I keep getting a talking to from my instructors about slowing down for my turns, including exiting the highway. Yet none of them, when asked, really give me good information on how to go about it. I asked on Friday if I was even using the brake right, and how I should brake. I didn't get a good answer.

So how am I supposed to use the brake? How do I slow down enough?

Right now I hold the brake down for about three seconds, or until I hear the hissing sound, then I let off of it. Then I come immediately back down to it for another three seconds. 1, 2, 3 *hiss* off 1, 2, 3 *hiss* off, etc. The reason I do this is because if I hold the brake down too long, the truck stalls out. It'll do that, right? I can't just apply the brake without consequences like in my car. Am I doing it wrong? How do I brake properly without stalling?

They've recently told me I should start skipping gears on the downshift. OK, but it doesn't do any good if I can't get the road speed down fast enough.

The worst part is people act like I do this **** on purpose. I don't. How am I supposed to slow the truck down?

I know what you mean, I used to have a problem with that because they wanted us to downshift while slowing down and youi can't downshift and brake at the same time (well, i can't anyway). To make it worse, i had one instructor who didn't want me to use the brake unless i had to. But anyway, you brake until the rpms get low enough, then downshift and brake some more. If you have to, push in the clutch and apply the brake, then find a gear when you get slowed down. Obviously the braking takes precedence over downshifting. But finding a gear then can be challenging (for some of us). I've been solo for 5 weeks and I still have issues finding the right gear in the low range (like when under 15 mph).

I'm not the most experienced by any means so this advice is worth what you're paying for it. In school, my instructor wanted us to brake and down shift through each gear (like Tom described) until 5th, then use only the brake. When we came to a full stop we did this, then push in the clutch when the rpms dropped to 600 to prevent a stall. Then, splitter down, shift to neutral, clutch out, wait for light to change. It sounds like you already know that you shouldn't ride the brakes. That just wears things out. Except for the lag, I don't think braking is much different than a car. But then, I'm kinda old and drive like that anyway.

Another thought, does the truck have a brake application pressure gauge? If so, put 25 pounds on it until the rpms drop enough to down shift. Then down shift and do it again. That 25 lb number is just to get a reference. A heavier or lighter vehicle will need different pressure. It might give you a starting point though. (You should talk this over with your instructor before trying it out. )

Blue Hotel, your post gave me a chuckle, not because it was silly or anything like that, but it brought back memories of being in truck driving school and how crazy some of the concepts seemed to be to folks who were brand new to all this and had never really had any exposure to the world of big trucks.

Slowing down is one of those parts of the learning experience that is really complicated at first, simply because there are so many things that you are trying to coordinate all at the same time. Make sure and watch how other students are doing it - one of the best ways to begin to get some of the concepts down is to learn from both the successes and failures of your fellow students. The students who are just sitting back and ignoring how the others are doing, and then breaking out in a cold sweat when it is their turn to give it a try are going to have a hard time learning this stuff. You can ask all the questions you want, but if you don't even know what they are talking about when they try to answer you then you will often times feel that you did not get a good answer. Observation of the others in the truck with you is key to learning at this stage of the game.

First off remember this - you need to start slowing down a big truck waaaaay sooner than you do your personal automobile. If you start slowing down way ahead of time that will give you time to get the RPM's down enough so that you can downshift and then get back on the brake pedal. I don't now how you came up with the idea of holding the brake to the count of three, then listen for a "hiss," and then let off. You are not going to hurt those brake pads by staying on the brake, there is no reason to let off at the count of three, and you can ignore any hissing sounds - they are air brakes, they make hissing noises because that is how the operate, they are letting air out of the brake chambers so that the springs will put pressure on the brake pads against the drums or disks.

What you want to be concerned with is your RPM's. You are wanting to slow the truck down until your RPM's drop down to around 1,000. When you are applying the brake you are forcing the engine RPM to drop because you are slowing down the revolutions of the tires which in turn transfers that reduction in RPM to the engine through the transmission. That is when you need to let up on the brake pedal - when your tachometer gets down around 1,000. RPM is your guide, not some random hissing from the brake system.

At 1,000 RPM you should now be able to let off the brake pedal and go ahead and double clutch and down shift while feathering that throttle just a little with your right foot. As soon as you have got it into gear then you go back to the brake pedal with that right foot and slow it down to the 1,000 RPM mark again and repeat the whole scenario again and again until you are getting down to the proper safe speed for the exit ramp or the turn you are entering. Again, you need to start slowing down way ahead of what you think you should.

I think the reason they are saying for you to skip a gear is that you have started slowing down way too late so that you do not have time to go through the gears properly.

Now that we've made all that clear as mud, get out there and try it a few times. You are going to get frustrated, just keep trying to get it. Don't waste your time focusing on how you don't think they are explaining it well enough, just focus on trying the procedures I laid out above and it will start coming to you. It takes a lot of repetition of these motor skills to even begin to understand how it all plays together to help you keep the truck under your control. All the things you are using are things that control the truck, I.e. brakes, transmission, throttle, and steering, they are all controls - you have to be able to coordinate everything so that you have total control of the vehicle as it is slowing down. You always want the truck to be under one of those controls, that is, you don't want to be coasting down the off ramp in neutral, and your feet flat on the floor.

... The reason I do this is because if I hold the brake down too long, the truck stalls out. It'll do that, right? I can't just apply the brake without consequences like in my car. Am I doing it wrong? How do I brake properly without stalling?

Actually, Not right. These modern trucks aren't like normal standard transmissions. I was worried about lugging the engine or stalling out, and I regularly overreved when out on the road. Yesterday my instructor had me slow down to a crawl and then take off again - all while in 6th gear on a 10 speed. I've been driving a wide variety of standard transmissions (cars, trucks, motorcycles, volkswagons, farm equipment, etc) for decades and I've never seen anything like it. He said the computer takes over and it is practically impossible to stall out a newish truck. It won't be smooth or pretty, but you don't have that "oh sh*t I just killed my engine in the middle of traffic" moment. If you are able to I recommend trying to stall out or lug the engine in a controlled environment. Then you will know where the limits are when your out in traffic.

I really liked OS description of the proper procedure. Every truck & trailer in our school and at XPO/Conway has ABS brakes. There is no need to pump them or stab them, just apply pressure smoothly.

The other big thing thing I have to remember is Everything Happens Slower. Much lower engine speeds than what I am used to. I just have to keep all of this in mind when I test on Tuesday. Good luck with your slowing!

Blue, here are a couple other things that come to mind.

Like Old School said, you want to keep that transmission in gear, never allowing yourself to roll in neutral. The reason, is because you don't have as much control of the truck in neutral. If you are at least in a gear, even in 10th, and you are holding your clutch in, if something unexpected happened, letting out on the clutch would stall the engine at lower speeds, and shut movement down abruptly. Your instructors will want to see you leaving the transmission in gear, for this safety purpose.

I've always used engine braking when riding a motorcycle, because it is easier to bring the bike to a stable stop, when the engine is already automatically dropping your speed, as soon as you let off the throttle. By doing this, you have less brakes to apply. Also, if you learn to keep your truck in a lower gear, with the RPM's high, your engine braking system will work even better.

The only thing you need to keep in mind with engine braking, is that you don't want to use it when traveling on wet, or icy roads. Same goes for your cruise control. When navigating those conditions, you want to drop your speed in general to compensate for those conditions, because you always need to avoid a jack-knife. Once a big truck loses traction, it is really hard to recover and get it back in a straight line, similar to a motorcycle.

Braking properly has a lot to do with timing, similar to shifting. You just have to spend time allowing your brain to learn the hand, eye, foot coordination required. You may get frustrated with some of this multi-tasking, but after you invest the time needed, all of a sudden it will start coming together for you. Try to relax if possible, because trying to learn the hand, eye, foot coordination will come quicker than if you are not stressed out.

Well, that is helpful guys.

Unfortunately, my school's trucks aren't new at all. They seem to be late 90s models. And they don't let us use the engine brake. They never even mention it. I only know about it from the DMV book.

So all I have to do is avoid letting the RPMs drop below 1,000 while braking? I was worried because when I first started I was always stalling out because I'd brake too hard. So I started hitting the brake for only three seconds at a time, as the DMV book said I should do when going down a grade. Even though we aren't on hills most of the time.

I would also say start slowing down sooner, way sooner. If you cant use jakes then downshift and use the brakes, downshift and use the brakes, downshift and use the brakes. Its easy to brake anytime but you should also keep the truck in the right gear. If youve dropped to 1000 rpm thats probably to low to drop to the next gear and get and resistance so thats maybe why they are telling you to skip a gear. Use the brakes until the rpm is about 1200 - 1400 then downshift. It all takes time so you start earlier to have the time you need.

Phil

Blue, the reality to it is, that your instructors have sent many students to the same examiner that will test you. They already know exactly what the examiner is looking for, what they will tolerate, and what they will immediately fail you on. Given that, you will need to try to follow their advice and perform the tasks exactly as they are describing them to you, until you get your license.

For instance, some examiners will not allow you to float gears , and expect you to double clutch on every shift. Your instructors will tell you that after you get your license, that you will end up floating gears , but right now, they don't want to see any of that until you have obtained your license.

Sometimes it can be beneficial, to request that your instructor demonstrate how they want you to perform a task, while you sit in the passenger seat and observe.

Also, watching the tach never worked for me. It was just one more thing to multi-task, and made things more confusing. What I learned to do was listen to the rpm's and get the timing of the braking and shifting correct, in order to prevent a stall. Ever notice when you watch a kid sit in the floor and play with a toy car or truck, they seem to know exactly when to shift, based on sound alone. Once you learn it, it is as simple as that to get your shift points dialed in.

Remember, for a given speed you are traveling, there are 2 gears you can use. One is higher and will get you better fuel economy but less control of the vehicle. The lower gear will use more fuel, but will keep your engine revolutions higher, and provide better control. The lower gear will at the same time be less likely to stall. The engine may be louder, and the truck may bounce a little when you accelerate or decelerate, but the lower gear will always provide better control, unless you are traveling on water or ice.