Pay My Own Way Or "free" Company School? And Which Company Has Best Starting Pay?

Yes I have read those numbers everywhere, they are somewhat discouraging (to me at least).

Well......... Kinda hard to reply to that one. Those are pretty much the numbers. You say you've seen them "Everywhere". You may be looking at the wrong industry if those numbers are discouraging to you. Everyone has different priorities. In my case, I'm 56 years old. I have ZERO DOLLARS saved for retirement. Health Insurance is VERY EXPENSIVE, especially if you are buying an individual policy on the open market. At my age, and older, yes, I will continue to get older, Health Insurance is a huge expense. I have chosen to work for a MEGA CARRIER, in order to take advantage of Group Insurance with the Company picking up a huge chunk of the tab. Also, the opportunity to contribute to a 401K plan with a Company match. Those happen to be a very big priority to ME. Your priorities may be completely different. I currently clear $500 - $600 per week after all deductions. To some people that may seem ridiculously low pay, and I understand that. I currently am able to "save" about $1000.00 of that. I have no rent, utilities, cable bill,etc. It works for ME! Ive made considerably more money over the years but was NEVER able to bank a Grand a month! I am happy with what I do. I am very much a loner. The job fits me well. 2 years from now I may completely change my mind, I don't know. What I do know is that I will give this job 2 years of my life, regardless. With the same Company by the way. Then and ONLY then will I have enough insight into this Industry to make an informed and intelligent decision on which direction I should take. I am learning quickly that you do not learn this business quickly or overnight! It takes lots of patience and a willingness to learn. 70-80 hour weeks can wear on you at times. Some people are cut out for it and MANY aren't. I believe I may be one of those that is! I'll get back to you in 2 years and let you know!

Okay, you can do your own research into some of the numbers that I am going to throw out here if you want to verify the veracity of them, but I am just going to try to be close with some generalities. Truck drivers get paid by the mile, or another way to look at it is that they get paid for what they manage to accomplish each week. This is a very efficient system, despite the naysayers who think we should get paid by the hour. You stated that you had employees before. If your experience was like mine then you quickly discovered which ones were worth their wages and which ones weren't. What did you do in those various scenarios? Well, for my part I would try to assist the weaker ones with maybe some extra training or help, but if it was obvious they just weren't going to be good performers then I had to cut my losses with them - I got rid of them. Now the ones that were good, I did everything I could afford to do to keep them.

In the trucking business everybody from the top on down gets paid for performance. Your dispatcher will probably have some sort of base salary with performance bonuses attached. That means the better he can manage his fleet of drivers the more money he can make - he is getting more done - therefore he is getting a slice of the pie. There are layers of management in these companies, and each layer is getting performance pay based on how the layer under his guidance is doing. You may not like the term "trickle down economics," but trucking companies are a book study on it. From the top managers all the way down to the drivers, everybody wants to move more freight, because that is how each of us earns more money. Notice that the driver is at the bottom - always has been, always will be - you'd better be able to live with that, or you are going to be spinning your wheels in this business.

Now you seem to want to make sure that you are getting your fair share of the pie, and I like that - we certainly should be rewarded for our efforts, just as everybody else in this whole chain of command thing should be expecting to be paid for what they are worth also. This is a commodities business, therefore the margins are very thin. You can verify this by looking at some of the publicly traded large trucking companies and you will discover that the ones who are doing well are netting about 3% profits per annum. Now that three percent may be a large number, but 3% is a tough nut to cut. I don't care if it is in the billions, you just took a huge calculated risk to make 3%! You can't get distracted with the total number of dollars - you have got to realize that 3 % is a very small amount of profit. I'm stressing this point because I don't really know you yet, and some folks would just want to say, "well the company I'm working for posted 4 billion in profits, and I only got paid sixty grand - that is highway robbery - I want my share of the money!" If they would focus on what percentage of the value of the load they were receiving they might see it a little differently.

Continued...

Just one nit to pick, not that I disagree with the general gist of your post. And that nit is: "trickle down economics" simply don't trickle down, as has been illustrated in the trends we have seen in the last 30-40 years, as per the facts I posted earlier. And that term doesn't really apply here, if the drivers are in fact making 25-35% of the load pay as you say (although I would venture a stab that there is likely a lot of unnecessary management "fat" built into that, but I suppose that is the way of all companies nowadays -- the days of Henry Ford "rewarding those who do the work" seems to be looooong gone these days...). But anyway, point being, "trickle down economics" is more of a term applied to the broader economy, and not this industry in particular.

In the end, the razor thin (3%) profit margins tell the real story. I mean I could dig into that and maybe they aren't 3% maybe they are not too far from that, I dunno. I suppose I should look into that. At any rate I think it is pretty safe to say that we are not talking about Wall Street bankster (which are further guaranteed by .gov) or oil or pharmaceutical company or Apple type profit margins here, lol. I mean, this is, after all, an actual productive portion of our economy (for as long as that still lasts). A corroborating point that I have been reading is that O-Os don't really seem to do all that much better than company drivers, by the time they are done paying for their truck, their fuel, maintenance, repairs, insurance, and all the rest. Therefore, it looks like company driver it will be, for me...

This is all an interesting philosophical / industry discussion (and thanks for indulging me btw) but at the end of the day it's a bit of an academic point. As you so correctly point out I either accept the way things are, or I don't. I'm certainly not going to change the way things are, and I would only aggravate myself (as well as others) by complaining about the way things are. Nobody needs that. And in that I agree with you 100%. It will be up to me to decide whether I want to do this job or not. I am just trying to figure out some realistic numbers from people with real experience. The kinds of info you can't find easily on the internet.

(cont'd)

For the most part, the drivers pay is going to fall somewhere in the 25 - 35% of the dollar value of a load. Freight rates are different all the time due to a lot of factors which I don't have the time here to go into, but generally your mileage rate is going to fall into that range, and the better drivers with good solid years of experience behind them will be more near the high end of that range. And just so you know it those better drivers will receive special attention and perks that the lesser ones may not. Here's an example: Just recently I needed to take ten days off for some medical reasons. Normally it would be company policy at my company, and most any trucking company, for me to turn in my truck if I am going to be absent for that long. Then when I'm ready to return they will find me another truck and re-issue me a truck. It is their very expensive asset, and they need it to be moving if it is going to be producing revenues for the company. That is understandable. My driver manager wouldn't even hear of it - he told me to bob-tail the truck home, and to call him when I was ready to come back. He knew it was against company policy, but he also had the authority to make that call because he valued the driver enough to handle it that way. Forget all the bull excrement you've read about these companies not respecting their drivers. They respect the drivers who deserve the respect - this all goes back to what we've been discussing about this being a performance based job. The people in the internet chat rooms and forums who are always screaming about how badly they got treated by the trucking companies were not getting it done - it's as plain and simple as that.

I'm trying to stress the importance of performance to you - that is where most everyone who has problems in this industry falls short, and there are a lot of them.

Now as to your original questions about "how much of the pie am I the driver getting as compared to the company?" Well, after their expenses, which are astronomical (you can verify that one too if you are so inclined), they are getting around three percent, if they are doing well. I am getting somewhere between 25 and 35 percent for my efforts. Did I answer your question? Or did I just incite more curiosity?

(cont'd)

I have no problems whatsoever with the performance aspect. I'm a big boy, I'm smart, and I can hustle. In fact I suppose I prefer it that way, assuming in fact that one will be rewarded for their initiative and hard work. Which it seems you are saying is the case. I'm fine with that.

Yes you answered my question. Thanks again for taking the time!

Honestly, you may see yourself as a super trucker or whatever. Bottom line is, you can't jump into this industry and turn 3k miles or more week one. It takes time to learn and be productive. If I got drop n hooks all the time with longer runs I could do it no problem. Did I mention I'm regional and home every week? I'm home now until Monday night or Tuesday morning with the holiday. Otr drivers will get more miles but stay out longer. But either way it takes time to get to where you turn miles safely and efficiently. I'm still learning myself.

I don't think you've read all of my posts. It's OK, I write a lot.

Nit-picky point well taken. It wasn't the best phrase to use. My brain was trying to go faster than my fingers. I jus wanted you to understand the layers of management in trucking companies. Drivers are at the bottom, but it is still a fiercely independent job. It is a truly unique way to make a living.

Ill talk to you about low pay lol. Out of company training i started at a "measly" lol 33 cpm. HOWEVER within just 2 months of busting my @ss and giving it everything ive got without complaint they bumped me up and additional 6 cpm on my base rate. Why? Within 2 months i was up there on the top of the miles driven in a month list for turning miles like the 10+ year veterans at my company. Yes, i even outdid my former trainer and now codriver haha. My only "advantage" if you can call it that was coming from a family deeply entrenched in trucking for 2 generations. I treat my truck as if i own it. Im very proactive regarding maintenance cost savings and catch minor things early enough so i wont be brokedown somewhere. Face it, im new, im slower to drive, back, drop n hook, slower doing EVERYTHING!

Funny thing is about my short haul regional company.. Doing short haul, i promise youll work harder for the miles because of the increased number of drop n hooks or live loading/unloading. Despite that i still managed to drive almost 3k consistently each week and rarely needed the $900 a week minimum pay committment because i earn more than that.

At 6 months im earning 52 cpm. Really darn good for a rookie driver. So yeah its possible to make $. But if you dont have a fantastic attitude and willingness to get anything they ask no matter how assinine it appears done, oooh theyll make you pay. Your dm will be less than accomodating, the load planners wont give you the time of day and generally theyll make your life hell till you give up. Thats the reality in this business and PERFORMANCE IS KING. These companies you are certain want to take advantage of you, took a huge risk in bringing new unproven drivers on board and if you cant produce, they LOSE money. If you can produce, Brett, OS, GTown and everyonne else is correct, theyll bend over backwards for you.

I love trucking.. Take care and do your homework and ditch the attitude. i gotta roll to Toledo then Iowa today. Near Lexington ky now. :-)

We are not trying to get you to see illusions, we are trying to get your focus on the realities of how this works. If you can't get that you are going to suffer in this business. We see it everyday - miserable drivers who are convinced that they are just "working for the man."

I want to make as much as I can. At the end of the day. nothing else really matters.

I'm quoting that one twice, because I seriously want you to think about what you are spouting off in here. I'm certainly not one to let anyone walk over me, but I have got to understand how this business works if I want to make the best efforts at making any money at it.

You spoke earlier about critical thinking and logic. Well, how is it logical for you to take the same approach to making the most money you can, let the company be damned, if that is not acceptable to you when you claim that the company takes that approach toward the employees. If nothing else really matters but that you are making the most money you can, then you have fallen into the same approach that you claim the company takes, and you say it is diametrically opposed to what you think is right and good!

Look, they are going to pay you based on what you can do for them, and if you can muster the skills and talents that keep bringing you to tell us how "special" you are then you are not going to have any problems at this career. The harsh reality in this business is that you "put up, or shut up." I'm just trying to help you see the way it works. If you want to enjoy the benefits of their system of providing good paying jobs for blue collar workers so that you can one day "get off the grid" and live your life just however you please, then you need to understand the basics of getting along inside the framework and structure of their system. There are thousands of drivers out there who are constantly trying to "buck" the system because they think of it as corporate greed. They are the ones who make it hard on themselves.

Brett did pretty much what you are talking about. He now lives like a hermit in the beautiful rolling hillsides of Upstate New York, eating out of his organic garden, and feeding his chickens and dogs off the extra Bibb lettuces that he grows. Heck, you have got to have an appointment if you even want to cross over his property line. He lives a secluded life, just the way he likes it! But to get there he busted his butt driving a truck and learning how things work in this industry so that he could reach his goals. If you want to make the most money you can at this, you will have to go about it in a way that works, and that way is what we specialize in helping people understand.

Like I said, I basically agree that it will be up to me to decide if I want to do this or not, and then as you say "put up or shut up." I am just asking a lot of pointed questions right now, even going off into some philosophical/political tangents as they are related to the discussion, because I am in my research / decision making phase. Once I make that decision, it's all going forward and no looking back. There won't be any more whining, complaining, or asking questions about things at that point, because what would be the point? Just get er done. Contrary to what you may perceive as a result of this initial thread, I am actually very easy going most of time and go with the flow and take the opportunities as they come. And doo doo occurs, you just have to roll with it. I think I am getting a good sense of what will be required (primarily, a good and flexible attitude) and I think I can manage that. I think I am becoming comfortable with what I will need to do and learn.

Incidentally, I at no point said I wouldn't take care of the customer or the company. In my view, that's how you make money. In fact, you succeed and make money by taking care of the customer and the company's needs. I would do that. I would take those loads that popped up at the last minute. I would manage my time and log book well and work all the angles (legally of course). My only question was what is the profit split between drivers and others in the company, and did you think it's a fair split? Then I realized of course it's a bit of an academic point, you either take the job as it is or you don't. No sense getting would up because thee sky is blue, that's just the way things are.

Brett did pretty much what you are talking about. He now lives like a hermit in the beautiful rolling hillsides of Upstate New York, eating out of his organic garden, and feeding his chickens and dogs off the extra Bibb lettuces that he grows. Heck, you have got to have an appointment if you even want to cross over his property line. He lives a secluded life, just the way he likes it! But to get there he busted his butt driving a truck and learning how things work in this industry so that he could reach his goals. If you want to make the most money you can at this, you will have to go about it in a way that works, and that way is what we specialize in helping people understand.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, good for you Brett man! You must be smarter than me because you saw these trends earlier.

I do realize of course that I too will need to put in the work to get from where I am to where I want to be. I have no doubts about my abilities to accomplish what I need to do. I just want to know, if I do all that, will the money be there?

More on this in the next post, replying to other guy... because it's related to the point he made... standby...

Yes I have read those numbers everywhere, they are somewhat discouraging (to me at least).

Well......... Kinda hard to reply to that one. Those are pretty much the numbers. You say you've seen them "Everywhere". You may be looking at the wrong industry if those numbers are discouraging to you. Everyone has different priorities. In my case, I'm 56 years old. I have ZERO DOLLARS saved for retirement. Health Insurance is VERY EXPENSIVE, especially if you are buying an individual policy on the open market. At my age, and older, yes, I will continue to get older, Health Insurance is a huge expense. I have chosen to work for a MEGA CARRIER, in order to take advantage of Group Insurance with the Company picking up a huge chunk of the tab. Also, the opportunity to contribute to a 401K plan with a Company match. Those happen to be a very big priority to ME. Your priorities may be completely different. I currently clear $500 - $600 per week after all deductions. To some people that may seem ridiculously low pay, and I understand that. I currently am able to "save" about $1000.00 of that. I have no rent, utilities, cable bill,etc. It works for ME! Ive made considerably more money over the years but was NEVER able to bank a Grand a month! I am happy with what I do. I am very much a loner. The job fits me well. 2 years from now I may completely change my mind, I don't know. What I do know is that I will give this job 2 years of my life, regardless. With the same Company by the way. Then and ONLY then will I have enough insight into this Industry to make an informed and intelligent decision on which direction I should take. I am learning quickly that you do not learn this business quickly or overnight! It takes lots of patience and a willingness to learn. 70-80 hour weeks can wear on you at times. Some people are cut out for it and MANY aren't. I believe I may be one of those that is! I'll get back to you in 2 years and let you know!

I think you said it all where you said "everyone has different priorities" so let me back up a bit and say what I probably should have said right off the bat, because my situation is different than yours.

I don't care about insurance, I don't have a family at home, I have some other money saved up already but need more, I am only 40 and I am very physically fit, I do full compound heavy barbell weight program and run for miles 3x per week. I haven't been to the Dr. in over 25 years and I am healthy as a horse. I am prepared to give this 100% dedication and live completely at the company's whims for the next 2 years or more, picking up every load available, doing whatever I can to be dedicated to the customer and the company and working as hard as I can to learn the trade and the network of roads and shippers across this whole country. And I'm a quick learner, not to brag but very bright, talented, and personable who has succeeded at everything I have ever set out to do.

Like you however I do also see the utility in "living on the road." I am excited about cutting out all those expenses. I have no ties. I will sell off the few remaining things I own in order to be completely dedicated to my new road life. I am actually excited about cooking my own food in a crock pot, and the challenges of tiny living in a 4x8 (or whatever) truck cab. I am actually looking forward to it, I think it will be fun, kind of like camping. :) I'm not going to spend money eating out, that costs too much money and it's hard to eat healthy that way. I also eat very healthy. Going off on a bit of a tangent here.

Anyway, point being, I have no attachments and willing to give this my all, take it as it comes, and be completely dedicated to this life. If I do all those things, I am hoping to get into the "exceptional" area and make maybe $40k in first year and then $50k (or more) in subsequent years. Unless I screw up, in which case that's on me and I would accept making less.

I am not worried about the hours, at all. I would work when it's available, and when I can't due to hours or whatever I would be very happy picking up a book or getting on my phone and continuing on my research of farming and butchering and stuff that I will need to know for the future. I mean, that's what I do now already. It would be the same on the road, not a minute wasted. Sounds like a perfect life to me.

I think I would be very good at route planning. I planned all the routing for my crews when I had my business (it was route work). There is lots to learn of course but I'm a quick study. I don't think you understand what kind of a sponge I am for information. lol

Ill talk to you about low pay lol. Out of company training i started at a "measly" lol 33 cpm. HOWEVER within just 2 months of busting my @ss and giving it everything ive got without complaint they bumped me up and additional 6 cpm on my base rate. Why? Within 2 months i was up there on the top of the miles driven in a month list for turning miles like the 10+ year veterans at my company. Yes, i even outdid my former trainer and now codriver haha. My only "advantage" if you can call it that was coming from a family deeply entrenched in trucking for 2 generations. I treat my truck as if i own it. Im very proactive regarding maintenance cost savings and catch minor things early enough so i wont be brokedown somewhere. Face it, im new, im slower to drive, back, drop n hook, slower doing EVERYTHING!

Funny thing is about my short haul regional company.. Doing short haul, i promise youll work harder for the miles because of the increased number of drop n hooks or live loading/unloading. Despite that i still managed to drive almost 3k consistently each week and rarely needed the $900 a week minimum pay committment because i earn more than that.

At 6 months im earning 52 cpm. Really darn good for a rookie driver. So yeah its possible to make $. But if you dont have a fantastic attitude and willingness to get anything they ask no matter how assinine it appears done, oooh theyll make you pay. Your dm will be less than accomodating, the load planners wont give you the time of day and generally theyll make your life hell till you give up. Thats the reality in this business and PERFORMANCE IS KING. These companies you are certain want to take advantage of you, took a huge risk in bringing new unproven drivers on board and if you cant produce, they LOSE money. If you can produce, Brett, OS, GTown and everyonne else is correct, theyll bend over backwards for you.

I love trucking.. Take care and do your homework and ditch the attitude. i gotta roll to Toledo then Iowa today. Near Lexington ky now. :-)

OK, point taken. I think I need to have a good attitude. Is that right? LOL

I also owned a lot of equipment and trucks in my former life, in fact we had a 1500 SF shop and all the tools and I maintained and repaired everything for the most part, myself. Usually overnights, after working all day out on the crew. Because that's what you do when you have your own business. Anyway, yeah as someone with the "owner" mindset I take great care of equipment, I have a lot of appreciation and respect for the costs involved in this business, from trucks, to maintenance, to fuel, to insurance even.

Also very responsible, again as I owned a lot of equipment myself. Drove a lot of trucks and trailers with equipment, for 20 years (backing is no problem for me, incidentally, lol)! Never an accident in all that time.

Thanks for your feedback on short haul. Let me ask you guys with the experience: what do I want to try and work toward to make the most money? Sounds like OTR? I'm fine with that, as I said I have no ties.