Unions

Forgive me if this has been answered already. What do you have to gain from this Kit? Are you a part-time O/O why exactly are you such a proponent of this black smoke matters "movement"/idea? Myself as someone who is new to the industry I don't see how I, as someone who will be in training or just finishing training, will benefit from even considering researching more about this minuscule event.

That's a fair question. I am a part-time/seasonal driver for a small company. The character attacks don't reveal much about truth. They don't reveal much about the relative merits of an argument. If an argument is valid, it should be acknowledged. I'm willing to acknowledge the merits of the arguments in favor of hard work and the avoidance of complaining and pity parties. This conversation would probably go much better in person with everyone sitting around a table. I'm not pretending to be someone I'm not. I'm not a typical college professor and you would see that in five minutes in a normal conversation. I admit that the banty rooster comment set me off a bit. I've always considered myself a strapping athletic lad (even though I'm not a lad any longer) who knows how to take care of himself. In the real world of hard work (logging is hard work no matter how you slice it) and athletics, no boss or coach ever questioned my work ethic. I know your worldview of academic egg heads doesn't allow for my description to make sense so I will just have to accept that you don't believe me.

What do I have to gain? I've always believed that monopolies were evil. In the game of Monopoly, as soon as someone skillfully/luckily acquires Boardwalk and Park Place (or all the railroads, or what have you), everyone else is screwed and the only reason to keep playing is to gratify the ego of whoever outmaneuvered everyone else early on. I don't believe that big corporations are the friends of regular people. The reason to break up monopolistic entities is to make it fair for the enterprising little guy to get a leg up. Social mobility is a big part of the American dream and if you have looked into it, you will know that the United States is nowhere the top of the list in that regard. My agenda, for as long as I can remember, has been to make things fair. It has always bothered me to see any kind of bullies taking advantage of others. Systems that are set up to allow a few people to exploit the rest have been on my radar since I was a teenager talking politics with my grandfather (a well-known Oregon log trucker). It's a verifiable fact that government at all levels is much more likely to represent the interests of the wealthy few than the less wealthy regular people. My agenda is to make things fair--to make it possible for anyone with pluck and good ideas to rise to the top. Independent operators in 1980 had a much better chance to compete with the big carriers (who were not nearly as big then) than they do now. The table is tipped. The game is rigged.

We all can agree that the government is corrupt. We may not all agree on the best way to fix the problem. The reason that I don't trust big money more than I trust the government is because politicians are puppets. Their strings are being pulled by big money. If the people could figure out some way to influence them, we could get a much better outcome from the same people who are now pandering to those who butter their bread. Even better would be to get better people in office, but we would still need to make sure that the government is of the people, by the people, for the people. That is not going to happen at this point in history without dynamite. Those who have held power for so long will not suddenly release their grip on Boardwalk, Park Place, all the railroads, etc. Power concedes nothing without demand. That's where the truckers (and teachers, too) could really flex their collective muscles. Teaching the next generations of truckers to accept the current power paradigm in this industry (and in society), in my opinion, is a grave mistake. However, I readily admit your point that fascism and other rampant bullying often happen in the sort of power vacuum that would ensue. History bears that out over and over. I also admit that I don't have a good answer for that. That's the key flaw in my argument. Probably the only thing that would work (and both of these arguments rest on the assumption that people are basically good) is either (a) the Messiah comes and fixes everything or (b) some wholesome values are allowed to be taught to everyone's children. Imperialism (I beat you, I eat you) and other forms of legal predation have not yielded good results. We humans could probably collectively learn values of truly abundant life (win-win) but a lot of brainwashing about the merits of winning at the other guy's expense would have to be unlearned, first.

I will say again that I've learned much from the wisdom and experience of the moderators who have attacked me personally and/or my position in this thread. There is a wealth of good information and good advice on this forum. I will retract my courage attack with apologies to anyone offended. Please forgive me for that. I will always believe that we all have good things to teach each other if we are willing to keep our minds open.

There are like a million political forums on the internet, why not go there and preach to them? I'm sure some would love to hear it.

Unfortunately you are not gaining much traction here.

I've always believed that monopolies were evil.

What monopolies are we targeting with a trucker strike? I'm not aware of any in this industry. In fact, if you combine the 10 largest companies in the industry they still wouldn't comprise 1% of the market share. So I still can't understand who you are targeting as the enemy and what they're doing wrong.

We humans could probably collectively learn values of truly abundant life (win-win) but a lot of brainwashing about the merits of winning at the other guy's expense would have to be unlearned, first.

Again, that's bordering on Socialism where "we all win equally" and that simply doesn't work. Competition brings out the best in people. It brings the best ideas to the forefront and gives others equal opportunity to create something even better in the future. It also affords workers the opportunity to outwork their peers and advance their position.

Independent operators in 1980 had a much better chance to compete with the big carriers (who were not nearly as big then) than they do now. The table is tipped. The game is rigged.

How is the game rigged? The game used to be rigged before 1980 when the government controlled everything. They decided who could own trucks and who couldn't and they set the freight rates. I find it very odd that someone who touts themselves as "fighting for the good of the little man" wants the Government to step back in and take control of the industry again.

You're actually against government deregulation of the industry???

Social mobility is a big part of the American dream and if you have looked into it, you will know that the United States is nowhere the top of the list in that regard.

Baloney. This is just more "poor me" garbage. Everyone in this country has the opportunity to advance themselves to any level they would like in any government or industry, and yet every single group imaginable self-identifies as being repressed. Every religion, every race, every gender - everyone cries about how they're being repressed, and yet you'll find every race, every religion, and every gender in positions of power throughout our culture in both business and government.

If the argument is valid are the key words there. I don’t think anyone here believes your argument is valid, and no amount of verbiage is going to convince them.

So why not spare us your socialist BS, and take it somewhere you can find like minded people?

Kit I will never respect, support or give credence to anyone who believes socialism is the answer.

I have nothing to discuss with you in-person or electronically and frankly you don’t really want a discussion. All you want is full compliance; as is the goal of anyone Evangelizing or Protesting. Like I said in my previous reply, “what you do” is nothing like “what we do”. There is no comparison.

Nothin’ personal Kit, but your thinking and value system is nothing new (the previous reference to sliced bread) and clearly does not belong in this forum. It’s only value is to you, a platform in hope of furthering your political agenda. It’s not working.

Kit, all other things aside; the overwhelming majority of us on this forum are either here to advise/mentor, learn, or as an individual progresses through various stages of their early career, a combination of both. That is not why you are here.

Your motivation/agenda are none of those things. That more than anything else is why I’ve got little patience with you and why I figuratively offered you the door yesterday. Nothing has changed.

This guy doesn't look like your typical college professor, but he is, as well as an Antifa supporter and wants to "blow things up" much like your dynamite comment.

You say you want valid arguments, but honestly, we have heard no valid argument from you. If the US is so horrible, leave. If trucking is so horrible, get out and stick to teaching.

You are presuming to tell us what is best for us, so in turn, you and those of your way of thinking want to become our puppet masters. The very thing you say we should be combatting. You continue to lecture to us as if none of us have a degree or any form of higher education. We do, and we have been brow beaten by philosophy teachers and Marxist for quite some time. Lenin and Stalin were awesome, weren't they? I think i would rather work and make my awesome pay check for a great company than follow people like them. And although Stalin and Lenin killed millions of their own people, including slaughtering a family of children and their maids, at least they did something. The BS protests and marches of today accomplish nothing. Look at the womens march. I have NO idea whatsoever what those women want. To be recognized as women? uh, dress like a woman and you will be recognized, look like a man and you will be assumed you are a man. Equality? oh pleeeeeaaassse.

Black Smoke Matters is a disorganized mess of complainers and none of them want the same things. Therefore nothing will change. As a matter of fact, their leaders keep changing. The most recent is 32 years old who wants to "bring back rhe 1970s" era--as if he knows what he was talking about since he wasn't born yet.

Again, none of this discussion helps those interesting in trucking to become drivers. You know, the whole reason for this forum.

Sorry, Rainy, you are NOT my equal. And that goes for every woman drover here

You are superior to me, and hopefully someday I will learn enough to be your equal.

Otherwise, you are spot on.

Sorry, Rainy, you are NOT my equal. And that goes for every woman drover here

You are superior to me, and hopefully someday I will learn enough to be your equal.

Otherwise, you are spot on.

At least as far as driving goes. Maybe in other ways as well. I certainly haven’t authored any books.

There is something about having an agenda to push that animates people - it gives them purpose. All this talk about producing a valid argument is comical to me. There are people who just enjoy debate for the mental stimulus it provides them. It's hard to trump a person's experience with a valid argument that runs contrary to their personal experience. The moderators here have each proven their value and worth in this industry. They are happily employed, and it shows in the way they freely give back to others who are interested in pursuing this career.

Kit, I will concede that it would be nice to earn more money, but that is true for any career. Let's say we think we should be earning 140,000 dollars per year. After years of civil disruptions and making our case and our voices heard we finally force our way there. Now what? If history and human nature teach us anything, we will all of a sudden think that's not sufficient. We need more, after all we are an important cog in the grand scheme of things. Markets have limits. That is how new labor reducing technologies are born.

This whole conversation reminds me of the time we got into a discussion about Steve Viscelli's ideas. Somebody who wasn't a trucker trying to persuade truckers how bad they had it. Yeah, We've Had This Discussion Before.

Patience grasshopper. lol

You should have seen Elk Mountain in WY last night... covered in ice, gusts of 50mph, blowing snow that looked like a Bella Ligosi movie. It was like ice road trucker 10.0 on a mountain lol And no, i didnt make my trainee do it. Im not that mean.

What i find funny about all the equality talk of the earlier part of the thread is that it assumes everyone has the same experiences and we dont. we never will. No two students will learn the same things even at the same company.

And the leadership discussuon? When this guy bragged at 18 he was "questioning authority" i laughed. At 16 i was sitting at lunch with then POTUS George HW Bush due to my leadership as a Lieutenant Governor of the NJ District of KEY Club International. I got that privilege because of my dedication to community service. while in high school my colleagues anf I raised $10 million for a childrens cancer hospital. I questioned the highest authority in the land on his proposed tax cuts during this nationally televised lunch that embarrassed my patriotic USAF veteran mother.

By 20 i held 2 jobs and worked my way through college. By 25 I ran a business with 80 employees. At 27, I used my vacation time to help 9/11 families. By 31 I took a leave of absence to help Katrina victims. At 36 I ran fundraisers for Haiti earthquake survivors. At 38 I wrote and publised novels with international sales and donated a large portion to military families. At 40 I had an audience with then Postmaster General Patrick Donohoe about USPS reform and measures that could save $200 million per year. At 41 I obtained my Class A CDL. At 42 I became a trainer and have mentored over 2 dozen new drivers.

I'd say that i have quite a bit of leadership experience, and I resent people who do not know me basically calling me an idiot for disagreeing with them. I have a brain and i do not need a philosophy book to tell me what my employer is like or how i should live my life.

Rant over...im done with this thread.