CRST Granted Exemption To Allow Non-CDL Holders To Drive By Themselves

First off, the Safety Director at my company says quite bluntly that the majority of preventables happen with drivers that have 5 + years experience and he has the hard statistics to back it up.

Drivers often get too comfortable, too relaxed, and less diligent with more experience, whereas the newer driver will tend to drive slower, be more cautious in general and more timid.

I do know a little about CRSTs school because its located in Cedar Rapids, IA directly behind the West Side Transport main terminal. They have a large skills pad to learn their backing and drive their "student driver" trucks all around our terminal and on busy streets in town.

I also know that West Side is typically inundated with CRST rookie drivers applications.. So much so, they asked us to please not recruit so many of their drivers lol. On the other hand, we get their dispatchers too and they steal our mechanics.

Our fear is that CRST is trying to get EVEN CHEAPER labor (as if their contract isnt harsh enough. 13 cpm. GTFO). Trust me when i say ive fed more than my share of broke, hungry, CRST drivers. Most at WST have. The last driver i referred to WST had 1 month left on his contract and had had it so rough he moved his wife and kids back in with his parents because they couldnt survive on what he earned while under contract. His codriver who was single, lived in FL and this guy lived in Michigan. His codriver NEVER goes home because he didnt want his teammate to see his wife and kids only once every 4-6 weeks. They place drivers as a team with no regard to where each driver lives! We referred the michigan driver to WST and his codriver to Averitt, because my partner still has friends at the terminal in FL near that drivers home.

On the flip side, a female driver at west side is married to a crst driver. She left crst but he did not.. And wont, but she doesnt say why Could be he is happy? West Side LOVES female drivers. They say we are safer and typically females are less risk-taking when compared to male drivers overall.

Anywho, CRST trainees generally have good skills, especially on backing. Sweet Jesus they really grind those gears something awful at first lol but didnt we all? But if theyre willing to pay a CDL holder 13 cpm for 9 months just because they trained them (despite the fact the government gives CRST (And every other company sponsored school) $4k for every cdl student they take (whether they obtain their CDL or not), who is to say that they wouldnt throw a permit holder into a truck with a driver that has only 2 or 3 months experiemce?

I know we arent here to bash a company and thus far, their cdl school has been decent as far as teaching neccessary skills go and companies are eager to scoop up their drivers as soon as that contract is completed.

(despite the fact the government gives CRST (And every other company sponsored school) $4k for every cdl student they take (whether they obtain their CDL or not)

Can you show me that in writing somewhere? I'd love to know about that program. I've heard rumors of that kind of thing but never any evidence.

Ok Brett, here is an example where schools are PAID to train veterans via grants but there are several grants that the cdl schools have "grant writers" put in the request for them.

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-license/fmcsa-awards-23-million-grants-help-train-veterans-jobs

Hete is another one. https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/grants/cdl-program-implementation-grant/commercial-driver-license-cdl-program-implementation-grant

This was for 2014 but these grants still exist and its not a new thing.

How about offering "Bretts School of Trucking" lol.. Yes, you could and Uncle Sam would pay you to train CDL holders.

Authorization

The Commercial Driver' s License (CDL) Program Implementation Grant is authorized by Section 4124 of Public Law 109-59, the Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users,Pub. L. No.109–59, §§ 4101(c)(1), 4124, 119 Stat. 1144, 1715, 1736–37 (2005),as amended by Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century, Pub. L. No.112–141, §§ 32603(c) and 32604 (c)(1) (2012),

U.S.C. §31313 (2006), as amended.

Funding is provided through the Department of Transportation's annual appropriations act and has been set at $30,000,000 for fiscal year 2014.

Updated: Monday, March 24, 2014

Sue thanks for putting that info up, I also found the same information. Also found the list of companies that use this grant and includes all the major start up companies.

It also makes provisions for the infrastructure to start and maintain the school. There are very few limitations on how they use this money provided it's used for the school. There isn't a set amount per student per say. Every year companies can request funding and its up to the government to approve amount.

If it were on a per student basis it would be difficult for companies to collect from students for unfinished obligations since the government would have "paid" for that students tuition.

Ok well those grants are a long, long way from being what you said they were. You said the government pays training companies $4,000 each for every student they take.

The first grant you pointed to says:

The U.S. Department of Transportation’s Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) today announced nearly $2.3 million in grants, double the amount provided in 2014, to 13 technical and community colleges across the country to help train veterans and their families for jobs as commercial bus and truck drivers.

So that didn't go to company programs at all, it went to technical and community colleges.

The second one said:

The goal of the national CDL program is to reduce the number and severity of commercial motor vehicle crashes in the United States by ensuring that only qualified drivers are eligible to receive and retain a CDL. This goal focuses on maintaining the concept that for every driver, there is only one driving record and only one licensing document....

Eligible Applicants include agencies in each State, including the District of Columbia, responsible for the development, implementation, and maintenance of all or part of the CDL program

So the second one wouldn't go to company programs either. It goes to the States themselves to help them maintain the licensing programs and records.

You will also find programs like WIOA - Workforce Innovation & Opportunity Act (aka WIA) - which are grants given directly to students to pay for their CDL training through private schools.

So to be clear, the government does not pay companies $4,000 per student to train new drivers. I'm sure there are some funds available to them if they dig hard enough to find them but it's not at all like you said it was. I want that to be clear to people because that's one of the many pieces of misinformation that's been floating around since the beginning of time and it leads some students to believe the companies are basically earning a profit by not training students properly and just firing them instead, but that's total nonsense.

And Sue, you also neglected to mention that the low cpm their drivers are being paid are for all miles the truck runs as a team. So it's essentially double that rate to start with and they have raises as you go.

I also found the same information. Also found the list of companies that use this grant and includes all the major start up companies.

I haven't found that either. I'd like to see that list if you can point me to it.

But seriously, please be careful about the things you guys are claiming. You have to get your facts straight. Please do not present things you heard around the terminal or the truck stops as facts. If it's something you feel is important enough to post then take the time to make sure the facts are correct.

And Sue, you also neglected to mention that the low cpm their drivers are being paid are for all miles the truck runs as a team. So it's essentially double that rate to start with and they have raises as you go.

Assuming Sue's quote is correct, double it and you get 26 CPM, which is still pretty low. And you have to team, and you can't leave for 9 months (well, you can, but good luck finding another trucking job). Swift isn't exactly the highest paying carrier ever, but even they start their teams at twice that...and you have more options than just teaming, and they use a finance agreement instead of a contract. There are plenty of other examples, just giving Swift because I'm familiar with their rates.

I agree alot of the time starting CPM doesn't matter that much, but 13 CPM for teams is really low. And especially just starting out, you don't know how to work the system yet to get the really great miles, so you're making a bunch of pretty low paychecks just starting out, and you don't even get the option of having your own space. Trucking is fun, but come on man, this is real life. People are out here to make money.

Since this thread is jumping all over the place, I guess I'll put in my two cents on one of the angles it has gone down.

I agree alot of the time starting CPM doesn't matter that much, but 13 CPM for teams is really low. And especially just starting out, you don't know how to work the system yet to get the really great miles, so you're making a bunch of pretty low paychecks just starting out, and you don't even get the option of having your own space. Trucking is fun, but come on man, this is real life. People are out here to make money.

I think when you are talking about a rookie drivers pay you have to realize that most rookie drivers have very little to offer the company they are working for, but rather it is the company that is offering something to the new driver. What would that be? Well, they are giving them a shot at learning a career that can produce a very nice income as far as most blue collar jobs go, and they are generally taking on a great risk doing this since the vast majority of folks who attempt this career seldom make it past the first year before they give it up all together, and many of them will end up in some sort of a minor accident which, even though minor, can often cost thousands of dollars in repairs and untold problems in freight scheduling and interruptions due to the down time involved for repairs. No matter where one starts this career, that first year is going to be a total learning experience, and if it is not then they are probably not going to last very long doing this.

I started my career with Western Express making 26 CPM as a solo driver which is basically the same amount as 13 CPM for a team. Yes, I agree with each of you that say it is low, but again I think you have got to put it in the proper perspective. Are their companies out there starting drivers out at better rates? Yes, there certainly are, some of them much higher, and each of us has the freedom to choose where we start, but not everyone can just start wherever they want to. I ran into this issue, and some of our fine folks down in Florida have this issue strictly on account of their geographic location alone. CRST fills a void for some folks who just can't seem to catch a break when it comes to landing their first trucking job.

Another thing to consider here is the fact that if one can prove themselves worthy they will be getting raises fairly quickly. I ended up making nearly fifty thousand dollars my rookie year (remember I started at a rate equivalent to CRST's starting pay). I know drivers who started at Prime at one of the highest rookie pay rates available to us who didn't clear that much money in their first year. So, in trucking all things are relative when it comes to how much money you make, and there is way more to putting the puzzle of how to succeed at this together than just the rate of pay. I know that I got raises at Western Express when other folks who went through orientation with me were not receiving them. I also know of at least two drivers that were in this forum just a few years back who started their careers at CRST, then after completing a year or so with them they decided to move on to "greener pastures." After just a short while they were both back at CRST because they realized how efficiently their dispatcher at CRST was running them.

I'm not trying to toot CRST's horn here. I just want anyone reading this to realize that they have been doing this for a long time, and they are a very successful company. They are not successful due to the government subsidizing their training programs, nor are they successful because they take advantage of their new drivers as cheap labor. Their program works, and while some of us don't need them to get started, there are some folks whose options are just more limited. Those same folks who need them to get started often end up staying for many years because they do end up "making money." Paul stated that is why we are out here, and believe it or not there are a good many CRST drivers who are making more money there than they could at some of the other major carriers they've tried. Some people love team driving. Personally, I would hate it, but that's just me. I just think we have got to keep all this in some sort of clear perspective, because you just can't measure a trucking company by it's rookie driver's rate of pay. It is a totally inaccurate assessment of what you end up with as a driver there.

Well as i said previously, rhey do run a good school and their drivers can handle the trucks. Ive seen the pay statements.. Sure its a whopping 26 cpm split. Figure 4500-5000 miles a week and split that between 2 drivers.. Its easy math.

I have difficulty pulling up all the grant information on my phone, but its all public information that schools, both company sponsored and private schools alike have access to quite a chunk of federal grant money for cdl training. That is a fact.

NO WHERE DID I SAY THAT THESE SCHOOLS DONT CARE IF THEIR STUDENTS ARE NOT TRAINED PROPERLY and to insinuate that is just plain silly Sure there are those who dont make it through. Thats just trucking and this path isnt for everyone. But face it.. 5K miles is what...$650 a week before taxes and insurance?

Yes indeed they have some drivers who are happy there. Every company does.

Now.back to the original post about their exemption from having to have a licensed CDL holder in the passenger seat while an UNLICENSED permit holder is driving an 80k lb vehicle. Its well established what their starting pay for a newly LICENSED cdl holder is. Anyone care to guess what the UNLICENSED driver earns as they are teaming? Yes, by the licensed driver being able to be in the sleeper, they are indeed teaming.

Furthermore, will permit holders be placed in trucks with relatively inexperienced drivers? What they were previously doing in regards to training was good.. It worked. Their training program grads have had good skills. So why the change and an application for an exemption? I think the "reason" is obvious.

Thanks for the reply Old School. We definitely agree on what you said here:

I just think we have got to keep all this in some sort of clear perspective, because you just can't measure a trucking company by it's rookie driver's rate of pay. It is a totally inaccurate assessment of what you end up with as a driver there.

I don't know what the raises are like at Crst, but I know at my company you can make some seriously good money if you stick around and try different things.

Beyond that, I'm not convinced. I don't know the inner workings of their business so I could be wrong about this, but I just don't buy the idea that they can't pay their workers more than 13/26 cpm to start out with.

The reason the low starting pay bothers me, even though you might not stay at that rate for very long, is that some people just can't afford to make such a low rate their first few months out. Alot of people come into this career to make more money and start out broke. After two to three months of first unpaid cdl school and then low paying company training, they're even more broke than when they started. (For example, I actually went into credit card debt during cdl school and training just to pay for food and some other things I needed out here--think heavy winter coat, work gloves, etc. Even Tractor Man, who says he doesn't pay rent, said the other day that he's been eating away at his savings. ChickieMonster lost her car and got behind in rent payments.) They're tired from the stress of all the training and bills piling up at home; but instead of a little break or the reward of finally getting a nice paycheck, they have to max out their clock every week and often lobby dispatch for miles just to put food on the table. And on top of all this, many of these people haven't seen their families in months, but if they try to take somewhat regular hometime to see them it may seriously affect their paychecks. I know, that's just trucking in general, but it sucks that much more when you're making so little.

I'm glad you were able to make it work, and I really respect you for doing so. But I cannot in good conscience recommend some of the lowest paying carriers to a new driver unless they have nowhere else to go (or they get some nice perks like what TransAm offers). Now, if they can manage to get rid of their overhead like many of us on here have done, it won't be too bad, but alot of people don't have that option.

Agree to disagree?