About That Jake Brake And Poor Road Conditions

Slowing power yes but it's not putting engine power in reverse on the drive shaft, that was the point I was addressing. The Jake literally sucks the power out of the engine, forcing the vehicle to slow down and yes of used improperly can cause loss of traction and a potential jackknife. While it's important to teach new drivers the ins and outs of safe driving, I think it's also important to pass along info on how things work when they're presented improperly.

I know how the jake works, but I didn't and don't think that information is required when a functional description sufficient for safety is all that is needed.

When the Jake is activated in a forward gear, your truck slows. This is the opposite effect of pressing the accelerator. The force is transmitted along the exact same components of the truck, completely avoiding the braking system.

IMHO, the most important thing about the Jake brake that a driver needs to know for slick road driving safety is that the ABS system has zero effect on the Jake brake.

The Jake can kill you if you don't understand how it interacts. You don't necessarily need to know all the nuts and bolts.

I could just as easily tell you how bad it is to use your service brakes on snow and ice. The problem with those is that air brakes are extremely powerful and can lock up your wheels very easily, even on a dry road if you're light enough. Sure, they don't bypass the ABS system, but let's be honest--if you lock your wheels up in the snow long enough for the ABS to kick in, you're probably gonna end up in a ditch anyway.

Any braking at all is dangerous in slippery conditions. Jakes are dangerous because they only affect the drives and service brakes are dangerous because they can easily lock everything up.

I just think it's interesting that multiple experienced drivers with good driving records have told me they sometimes use the jakes in the snow, including the simulator teacher in Salt Lake who has well over 5 million safe miles, and yet you the rookie know so much better than all of them. Truly amazing.

I could just as easily tell you how bad it is to use your service brakes on snow and ice. The problem with those is that air brakes are extremely powerful and can lock up your wheels very easily, even on a dry road if you're light enough. Sure, they don't bypass the ABS system, but let's be honest--if you lock your wheels up in the snow long enough for the ABS to kick in, you're probably gonna end up in a ditch anyway.

Any braking at all is dangerous in slippery conditions. Jakes are dangerous because they only affect the drives and service brakes are dangerous because they can easily lock everything up.

I just think it's interesting that multiple experienced drivers with good driving records have told me they sometimes use the jakes in the snow, including the simulator teacher in Salt Lake who has well over 5 million safe miles, and yet you the rookie know so much better than all of them. Truly amazing.

Physics is physics. ABS systems save lives. If road conditions are good, the jakes aren't much of a risk because they do not generate enough force to break the tires loose from the road in normal driving conditions. If road conditions are slick/bad, then it doesn't matter how many million miles someone has driven, if they have the jakes on, they are taking a risk.

As a counter-example, I know people to this day who swear up and down that wearing seatbelts is more dangerous than not wearing seatbelts. Despite the several decades of accumulated data that proves them wrong.

Physics is physics. ABS systems save lives. If road conditions are good, the jakes aren't much of a risk because they do not generate enough force to break the tires loose from the road in normal driving conditions. If road conditions are slick/bad, then it doesn't matter how many million miles someone has driven, if they have the jakes on, they are taking a risk.

I don't disagree with any part of your response. My point is, if you use your brakes--Jakes OR air brakes--in the snow, you are taking a risk. The question is which one is more of a risk. And I think that depends on the situation, otherwise safety-minded experienced drivers like my friend in Salt Lake would know better than to ever use the jakes in the snow.

Physics is physics. ABS systems save lives. If road conditions are good, the jakes aren't much of a risk because they do not generate enough force to break the tires loose from the road in normal driving conditions. If road conditions are slick/bad, then it doesn't matter how many million miles someone has driven, if they have the jakes on, they are taking a risk.

I don't disagree with any part of your response. My point is, if you use your brakes--Jakes OR air brakes--in the snow, you are taking a risk. The question is which one is more of a risk. And I think that depends on the situation, otherwise safety-minded experienced drivers like my friend in Salt Lake would know better than to ever use the jakes in the snow.

Your service brakes are always safer for the same amount of braking force. Modern ABS systems react almost immediately to any sort of slippage. Service brakes, when they are well-maintained, distribute braking force on all your tires, not just drive tires.

Using both Jakes and service brakes on good road conditions is the best of both worlds. It saves wear and tear on brakes, and helps prevent brake system overheating. A lot of drivers might see saving wear and tear on their service brakes as a way to save money, and time, and take a few more risks than they should to save that time and money.

There's also a possibility that you might have misheard what your experienced drivers said. "Driving in snow" or "Driving on snow"

Road conditions can be good while driving in snow. For instance, approaching Detroit today from the South/West there was enough snow at times to drop visibility to a quarter mile, but the roads were still dry for the most part. The snow wasn't sticking and melting, just blowing across the road and collecting on the shoulders. I kept my jakes on. Later in the day, there were times, as I got closer to Michigan, that I did turn off my jakes because there was a mix of rain and snow, and the roads were wet.

If you are driving on snow, at highway speeds, the jake is almost certainly a bad idea. You don't know what's under that snow, not really.

We could probably jab at each other about this for a while, but I think we mostly agree.

I can tell you that my jakes are on all the time. Inthe snow, however, they are on the lowest settings. Where they get dangerous has a lot more to do with your road speed. If you are driving too fast, that is what causes the tires to lose traction. I even use them coming down mountain passes. It has the same effect as dropping gears, only the drive wheels are effected.

We could probably jab at each other about this for a while, but I think we mostly agree.

We don't really, but that's all right. Neither of our opinions really carry much weight considering we're both rookies. We do share the same goal of being as safe as possible, which is a good start.