What Are A Truck Driver's Best Defense Against Possible Criminal Acts Against Them While On Duty?

I've been to places with the "No Firearms" sign and I've also been to places where they don't have one, both shipper and receiver. Most of our receivers are hardware stores.

Where I went for my DOT Physical, they had a "Firearms Welcome" sign though.

I'm not cynical about it, I've got no problem leaving my firearm home, but honestly it shouldn't be that way. And there is a lack of law on the matter in my opinion.

As I keep repeating - there are NO LAWS that specifically prohibit personal firearms in a CMV - neither state nor federal. STATE LAW applies to CMV's the same as 4-wheelers.

As far as laws allowing employers and property owners (shippers/receivers) to prohibit weapons on THEIR PROPERTY (and the truck IS their property), there is plenty of case law all over the country, to support this.

Florida (for example - since I keep up on home state law more than other states) passed a law allowing employees to leave their gun in their CAR on company property, but upheld the employers right to prohibit weapons in the workplace. And if an employer has signs prohibiting weapons, or it's in the employee/company policy manual and you carry onsite - you can be fired with cause (no unemployment).

Your employer (trucking company) has a right to search THEIR PROPERTY (your truck) anytime they want to. Any place that has "Vehicles Subject To Search" signs can search also - once you drive past that sign, you have given them "informed consent" to do so.

Vehicle searches get a little shady - depending on where you are. COMMERCIAL VEHICLE SEARCHES though, are pretty much a free for all, as LEO's are allowed to "inspect", including the interiors. There's no reason to worry about a gun onboard (as long as it is where it is PERMITTED by that states laws). States that are screwy about it (BLUE STATES for the most part, go figure) tend to also be screwy about bad searches too. And if you are rolling through NJ, and they find a firearm in the cabin - YOU WILL GO TO JAIL (unless you have a NJ permit).

NJ Supreme Court (awhile ago) found that GRATEFUL DEAD STICKERS on a car, constituted "probable cause" for a search (VA did also). LEO's would know when The Dead were on tour, and grab hippie-mobiles as they were passing through. In VA, when 95 had tolls - the TOLL BOOTH OPERATORS used to call ahead to the troopers to clue them. That's why I never had stickers on my vehicles.

There's a FEDERAL LAW called "Interstate Compact" that allows gun owners to travel through states where they are not legal, with the gun "securely encased" and inaccessible to the passenger compartment (kind of hard to do in an SUV or Tractor). Most states in the NE IGNORE THIS and WILL ARREST ANYWAYS (NJ, NYC, MA are FAMOUS for this). While you may (eventually) beat the charges, you still got arrested, towed (and you REALLY don't want to add TOWING to your company offenses - probably go down as "abandoned equipment" on your DAC).

There are so many different laws for each state - and SO MANY STATES we have to drive through, that are NOT GUN FRIENDLY - the risk of having a legal incident in ones of those states GOES WAY UP. Is it WORTH THE RISK?

There's a facebook group called: Truckers Lives Matter - that is trying to lobby for firearms reciprocity for truckers (which would be similar to CCW reciprocity bills that are currently in congress right now). Even if Congress did pass some reciprocity so truckers could travel from state to state without fear of LEO - THIS STILL DOESN'T CHANGE COMPANY POLICY.

And like it or not - the TRUCKING LOBBY is way stronger than a bunch of truckers. WHATEVER THE REASON that companies prohibit weapons (liability, safety, whatever) they are WELL WITHIN THEIR RIGHTS TO DO SO. And those rights as they apply to the 2A, are going to override OUR RIGHTS to possess firearms on the COMPANY PROPERTY WE ARE DRIVING (regardless of whether or not it's OUR HOME ALSO).

Rick

I'm not sure if it's worth the risk or not. All I do know is that it would sure be sad to die at a truck stop or on the side of the road somewhere when I could've survived. It's all statistics and probability until it actually happens to you or someone you know.

Something I have not seen mentioned yet, if the LEO wants to search it bad enough, all they have to do is call your company and ask them for permission to search the truck. The truck is theirs, and they can give consent.

I just want to thank the chosen one on his small history lesson, thank you I enjoyed reading your post.

Your welcome. My second job in IT was working at a Law Firm that only handled Constitutional Law. That was one of the best jobs I have had. The Litigators working there were some of the best in their field, and I often found I was allowed to watch mock debates when they were preparing their appeals. These folks lived and breathed the Constitution, and they had the Wall of Amendments, which had a large picture frame for each one, explaining why it was included, and below it the various SCOTUS rulings on why they not absolute.

I learned more there in 2 years than anywhere else I have worked, and it was a pleasure, and privilege to work there.

Your welcome. My second job in IT was working at a Law Firm that only handled Constitutional Law. That was one of the best jobs I have had. The Litigators working there were some of the best in their field, and I often found I was allowed to watch mock debates when they were preparing their appeals. These folks lived and breathed the Constitution, and they had the Wall of Amendments, which had a large picture frame for each one, explaining why it was included, and below it the various SCOTUS rulings on why they not absolute.

I learned more there in 2 years than anywhere else I have worked, and it was a pleasure, and privilege to work there.

Interesting.

I do IT for legal industry here in FL. I end up having some of my clients CALL ME for advice on FL gun law - because they know how obsessive I am about it. Even a criminal attorney or two that I do work for, has called.

Something I have not seen mentioned yet, if the LEO wants to search it bad enough, all they have to do is call your company and ask them for permission to search the truck. The truck is theirs, and they can give consent.

Also true. Most folks tend not to push it to that point. The harder you resist, the more they tend to trash your vehicle when searching.

There is also the Motor Vehicle Exception to warrentless searches.

In reality - 49 CFR 396.9(a) authorizes searches - as "inspections" (a) Personnel authorized to perform inspections. Every special agent of the FMCSA (as defined in appendix B to this subchapter) is authorized to enter upon and perform inspections of a motor carrier's vehicles in operation and intermodal equipment in operation.

The reg is written "loosely enough", to give lots of wiggle room, and bypass the normal "probably cause or exigent circumstances" excuse that cops normally give, to bully someone into allowing a search.

It really isn't about "random contraband searches" (which really only happen at border crossings or checkpoints close to the border), as much as how far you are willing to go, to deny a LEO a search?

Back into the context of the discussion - having a firearm onboard.

As far as "critical defense scenarios" go - if it is not ready to shoot and immediately accessible, the amount of time to make it so, is usually way past the amount of time a critical defense situation has already come and gone. And "accessible for immediate use", is typically the legal standard applied for firearms in vehicles where the owner DOES HAVE a CC that is VALID IN THAT STATE.

Example: I'm licensed to carry in FL (and 39 other states). If my pistol is in a holster/case UNDER THE SEAT, it is legal - just lying under the seat IS NOT. Because my license covers a weapon on my person and in my IMMEDIATE CONTROL - under the seat is not in my "immediate control", and is illegal.

For those who choose to "take their chances" and keep a weapon onboard - make sure you are WELL VERSED in the "firearms in vehicles laws" of EVERY SINGLE STATE you are passing through. Chances are, if you ARE LEGAL and declare your license/weapon, they won't even bat an eyelash. If you give them a PITA about a search, or having a firearm - they will likely call your company, and you will be looking for a new career. And if having a firearm in your vehicle is NOT LEGAL AT ALL - say hello to Mr Handcuffs.

Rik

I shouldn't, but I can't resist.

"Well, if the company has a rule against drivers' packin', I personally will NOT work for them. No way. No how. Not for $100,000/year even. "

You've eliminated 99.9% of potential employers then. Get your own truck and pack an AR if you feel like it.

"It is a sure sign my life means nothing to them. The corporate big-wigs are not going to get gunned down, sexually assaulted or beat to death in their sissy office."

If you comply with their rules, your life is just as valuable as any other employee's lives. You are no more or less special than anyone else. A little edgy, for sure, but not more important. If their office employees were getting killed and assaulted, they would change their location, security procedures, policies or all of the above. If their drivers were sent to notoriously dangerous location they would have equally responsive and responsible solutions for that as well.

"I live in pro-gun Idaho in the Wild Wild American West Where It is Best. I would definitely prefer regional or local since there is no CCW requirement for residents in this state. Ideally, I would like a position where I would not even have to leave state lines in the rig because of the gun permit issue. Driving in Kommie-fornia is absolutely OUT for me."

Sounds like you should be a repo man. Be sure to wear your cowboy hat.

"I thought most American truck drivers were mostly right wing and in favor of gun carry for their personal security anyway."

I would wager you are correct on both points here. At least the drivers that are born in Murica and speak English. Most of this same demographic, I would again wager, also likely strongly believes in personal property rights and that trucking companies, shippers and insurance providers don't want Yosemite Sam on their property or operating their equipment and have the overriding right to tell you to leave your pistol at home or seek other employment.

"And why are there so damn many random murders against truck drivers? Some were just doing their job with no sign of robbery attempt."

It is a shame when one hears of senseless on the job killings, regardless of occupation. I don't thimk you'll find any statistics that show there are a rash of trucking killings, despite your expert Googling. Truckers are much more likely to be killed by distracted driving, tired driving, aggressive driving or, perhaps in your case, hyperventilating.

The fact is I could DIE or get KILLED!

Someone needs to buy him his own personal indestructible bubble that he can't get out of, then he'll learn.

On the other hand, if he cared that much about guns and surviving, he would be very unfocused and would be more likely to run head-on into a wall and die that way.

Guess I won't be putting any dead stickers on my truck.

I can confirm NJ is one of the toughest states for guns and even arrested LEO from another state who transported his weapon into NJ.

I feel SAFER with the guns being prohibited by companies. I've seen some of these road raging idiots and with my smart@$$ mouth I'd get shot by one of them. What if a moron drops it getting in the truck and it hits me in the sleeper? People are stupid and this stuff would happen.

Also keep in mind....you use a gun in self defense. The cops don't press charges. You get terminated for failure to comply with company policy. You never get hired in trucking again....AND you just killed your reference for a non trucking job.

Yeah...really worth it. Sues right...be smart and not get into situations where you would need one.

Something else that makes me laugh is that many of these advocates live in small towns and never ventured to a city but want to tell us city dwellers about the dangers. Lol

I can confirm NJ is one of the toughest states for guns and even arrested LEO from another state who transported his weapon into NJ.

I feel SAFER with the guns being prohibited by companies. I've seen some of these road raging idiots and with my smart@$$ mouth I'd get shot by one of them. What if a moron drops it getting in the truck and it hits me in the sleeper? People are stupid and this stuff would happen.

NJ is definitely a testicle-buster.

The one you reference (the cop) was actually a detention deputy, not a sworn street officer (they usually get some professional courtesy). There was another case of a soccer mom who "thought" her PA carry permit was good in NJ. Wasn't. Ended up giving her a pass on it.

Latest one - decorated Marine Vet (from out of state) had one in his car, him a buddy got into an altercation in a bar. The "buddy" (yeah, some buddy) got the gun out of the car and waved it around in the bar. Marine was charged with unregistered weapon. He got THREE YEARS - Cristi just commuted (not PARDONED) his sentence. While he doesn't have to do the 3 years - he is still a CONVICTED FELON and will never be able to own a firearm again.

Which REINFORCES THE POINT I MADE EARLIER. If you are going to choose to keep a firearm ANYWAY, it behooves you to acquaint yourself with the LAWS OF EVERY STATE you might pass through. Maryland is also REAL STRICT about transporting personal firearms

As far as "dropped guns going off" - rarely happens anymore. Design changes are minimizing accidental discharges to a great degree - though a lot of pistols older than 10 years, might still have this happen on the rarest of occasions.

But we return to the basic premise. If a company, shippers/receivers, and many states you may pass through - all prohibit weapons - you are RISKING YOUR CAREER AND FREEDOM by doing so anyway.

In 25 years of daily carrying - SITUATIONAL AWARENESS has kept me out of situations where I might have been FORCED to use it.

Keeping your wits about you - is THE BEST DEFENSE against "possible criminal acts against them while on duty".

Rick

Also keep in mind....you use a gun in self defense. The cops don't press charges. You get terminated for failure to comply with company policy. You never get hired in trucking again....AND you just killed your reference for a non trucking job.

I'd rather still be alive to find another job.

And, why don't you think such a person would be able to find another job in trucking. There are many companies owned by pro-gun people. I would bet that such a person would find another job easily and probably be treated like a hero, to boot.

Pass the popcorn, again. Thanks.