Humbled By Shifting.... :)

Day two of driver training, first day (couple of hours) with my ass in the driver seat. I've driven a manual transmission all of my adult life so I thought I would have a leg up. I could not have been more wrong. The double shifting is kicking my ass. My instinct is to push the clutch all they way in like I've done for the last 20 years. The first part of the day was the worst. I bet the tractor is 5lbs lighter due to all the gears I ground by not being fast enough clutching. Now I know I'm not the only guy struggling, some are doing worse but some are getting it a lot sooner than me and it's really bringing me down. Shifting wasn't something I thought would be a huge roadblock but it has me questioning my decision to drive. Some times I'm smooth as silk getting it in the next gear, others it's like I have no clue what I'm doing. It's literally been a couple of hours of actual driving time but I'm still beating myself up for not having it mastered. My nerves are little frayed.

Bonarro, I actually think having experience with a manual transmission is detrimental to learning to shift a big rig. What PJ said is right though, it's all about the RPM. These truck transmissions are designed completely different than a standard auto/pick-up transmission. You can just about shift a car's manual transmission at whatever RPM you want because the transmission is synchronized so that the gears will mesh whenever you want them to. In a big rig the RPM has to be just right so that they will mesh and be synced together.

Another big difference is that you only need to push that clutch in an inch or two, just enough to disengage the clutch plate. When you push it to the floor you are engaging a clutch brake which slows or stops the gears from spinning in the transmission which makes it even harder for you to get them to mesh together. You only push it to the floor when starting from a standstill because at that point you don't want them spinning.

It will take you some practice to break your automotive shifting habits, but you will have to do it the way the truck wants to be shifted or it will never respond correctly. Listen to what your instructor says about the RPM they want you to shift at and don't let the RPM drop down so low that you can't get it to slip into the next gear. You've got to get it in the next gear before the RPM drops off too far. That whole double clutching thing takes some timing and practice. You can actually practice the rhythm of it just sitting in a chair and pretending you're pushing in a clutch while shifting an imaginary shifter. The rhythm should be just two quick short pumps of the clutch. I heard someone describe it in this forum as being the rhythm of the old "Adam's Family" song and that is just about as best a description as I can come up with.

If it's any consolation, you won't be double clutching very long. That double clutching is only for the driving test. Once you've got it down enough to pass the test you can "float" the gears from then on. Floating gears still requires knowing where your RPMs are, but you will be shifting without using the clutch. I don't know of any Drivers out here on the road that are consistently double clutching. If they were we'd all have overly developed left legs because we sure do shift a lot of gears getting a days work done.

Bonarro, you're going to be perfectly fine. The only thing you have to worry about at this point is putting unnecessary stress on yourself by having unrealistic expectations. You've been in the truck for one day!!!! Let me tell ya right now - there isn't a driver in America that doesn't grind gears sometimes. Not even the ones that have been driving for decades. I drove for 15 years and I was as good as anyone out there. But I ground gears sometimes. I had days I couldn't have backup up to the broad side of a barn. I had days where I made mistakes I shouldn't have made when I was in school.

That's the reality of life in a big rig. We're all fatally flawed human beings and there's no way around it.

Relax and allow yourself some leeway. I love the fact that you have high expectations and you want to get in there and be awesome. Because of that attitude you will indeed likely turn out to be awesome. But you'll actually accelerate the learning process by allowing yourself to relax and accept your minor mistakes.

You should expect to have some good days and some bad days. You should expect that some people are going to pick up on certain things faster than you will. Learning to drive these things is not a predictable process where you make consistent improvements. You will have setbacks from time to time. You'll get better at some things for a while and then suddenly it's like you forgot how to do them.

Just relax and trust that things will turn out perfectly in the end. Having high expectations of yourself is excellent. But make sure they're realistic. Don't be afraid to laugh at yourself sometimes. Don't be afraid to ask someone for advice if they've picked up on something a little more quickly than you did. Try to enjoy the learning process and know that giving it your best day in and day out will get you where you want to go in spite of the inevitable ups and downs you'll experience.

As far as that clutch goes, think of it as "kicking" the clutch more than actually depressing it, ya know what I mean? It only has to go in like an inch. And you may have heard already that you can "float" gears - meaning you don't need a clutch at all to shift. So your shifting will ultimately turn out the same whether you use the clutch or not. Obviously you have to use it in school and during testing. But for now, just think of it as "kicking" or "tapping" the clutch as opposed to depressing and holding it like you do in a four wheeler.

It's actually very common for students who have never driven a standard to catch on more quickly than people who have because they don't have the "bad habits" of clutching it like a four wheeler. You have to unlearn the bad habits and learn new ones. That will take a little time, but obviously you'll get it just fine.

I can tell you that in time shifting WILL become second nature, and when it grinds occasionally (it WILL happen), you will instinctively get it into gear and not panic. I even float the gears on my car now. The first time I did it without thinking, I realized what I did and popped it out of gear real quick, then I realized, hey, I just floated it into gear! Also, sometimes I leave the jake brake on in the truck without realizing it, and then when I notice it I am amazed I had been driving/shifting it with the brake on and didn't even realize it.

I typically float the gears when shifting up, and double-clutch when down-shifting. That just seems to work for me. I will downshift without the clutch occasionally, when I "feel" it will go smoothly. You'll get the hang of it!

One thing that helped me was I realized shifting goes smoother if you don't wait until the RPM's are all the way up to 1500. I tend to shift at slower rpm's now, and it works better. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I go higher, but shifting seems a lot easier at lower rpm's. Also, shifting quicker on the lower gears and a little slower as you shift up seems to help. You can "feel" it slip into gear. It probably wouldn't hurt to float a gear or two, just to see how it works, then you know the timing that will work best for double-clutching. Also, I have noticed that simply pushing the clutch in an inch and holding it there doesn't work as well as if you shift while "moving" the clutch a little. In other words, I might push the clutch in a little when taking it out of gear, leave it there, then let it out just a little then press it in a little further going into the next gear. Also, the friction point is different in different trucks, and a lot of trucks I've driven you really have to mash the clutch all the way down to engage the clutch brake. One truck in school you had to push the clutch almost to the floor to shift, and others you only have to push it in about an inch. You can "feel" it by just pulling a little on the shifter, pressing in the clutch, and feel when it pops out. "Pumping" the clutch a little (not to the floor!) always seems to help me get it in gear if I am a little off.

One little exercise I found myself doing it when creeping along in construction traffic. Barely accelerating and then slipping into the next gear, or barely tapping the accelerator and slipping it down a gear. Basically, for me, I found that downshifting seems to work if I start to put it into the gear about the same time I push the accelerator a little. Revving it all the way up to 1500 and trying to catch it just never worked well for me. This seems to work better at about 1250 ... of course, if the rpm's are too high when you downshift then you have to rev it up to catch the gear... which is why shifting at lower rpm's seems to work better. It's also easier to "feel" when it's time to put it in gear instead of "missing" it because the rpm's are going up or down too fast.

I might just be imagining all this, but it seems to work for me. Hope I didn't make things worse!

Input from veterans is welcome!

Since the thread has been necro'd, thought I'd share what I experienced.

I've driven various standard vehicles since driving age (about 10 years old). Thought I'd have no problems since, I have driven a cement mixer truck (they called it bulk trucks) and a trash compactor truck sometimes when I worked for a boat manufacturer. Those all had standard transmissions and were no problem to me all.

First day behind the wheel on the semi and out on the shifting area, I COULD NOT EVEN GET INTO 3rd gear and we started in second!!!

You literally do have to forget all you have learned about shifting and relearn it. The instructor had told us all that people that have never driven a standard transmission at all would learn the fastest at shifting a semi. He was right.

So, what we had to do was go home and get a broom or mop handle and sit down in a kitchen chair and pretend we were shifting (with motor sounds and all) to get the rhythm down. You have to train your muscles to do it correctly. Also, we were told to wear regular shoes (not boots), so that we could feel the clutch better. These things helped tremendously. Yeah I know, the neighbors thought I'd finally lost all of my mind when they looked in my windows and saw me shifting a mop handle in the middle of the kitchen.

Think 1 one-thousand 2 one-thousand. That is about the timing you will need. Shift out, and shift in. Clutch in and out, clutch in and SLOWLY out. Those at about the speed in which you say them.

Downshifting is quite a bit different. You have to rev up the engine before you shift into the lower gear first.

Oh and don't fret it, it's just to pass the CDL driving test. Once you get working, you will need to float the gears anyway. And for that, you have to forget all that double clutching and learn how all over again from your trainer.

Most important, don't think you know it all. LISTEN to your trainer/teacher. Try to remember and put into practice what he/she is telling you. Try to forget all that you THINK should work.

Hope it helps.

BTW, I prefer to double clutch in the lower gears, but once I flip the selector, I glide. There's too much force going through the transmission in the lower gears, so clutching seems to make it easier there.

Warning: newbies ignore what I'm about to say. You won't be able to make sense out of it until you're out there floating gears for a little while.

It's a little more difficult getting the truck out of gear in the lower gears if you're floating because the truck doesn't have as much momentum. When you're in 3rd or 4th getting started and you let off the gas, the truck is rolling so slow it's tricky to get that little bit of momentum to push against the transmission and take the tension off the gears so you can pop it out of gear.

Have you noticed it's also easier to float gears when you're loaded heavy than when you're empty? Same reason. The momentum from all that weight in the trailer helps to 'push against the transmission' or push the truck forward after you let off the gas so the tension comes off the gears and you can pop it into neutral.

Overall it's easier to float gears with more momentum, whether that means the truck is rolling faster or it has more weight behind it.

Interestingly enough if you have too much momentum, like when you're loaded heavy and rolling down a hill, it's again tricky to get it out of gear because the momentum starts pushing too hard too quickly against the transmission, making it tough to pop it into neutral.

The bottom line is that your timing has to be precise. By the time you let off the gas you have to already have tension pulling that shifter out of gear and sometimes you have to give it a quick 'pop' to get it out of gear and into neutral. When you're in a situation that makes it more difficult to float gears you have to accelerate hard and instantly let off the gas while popping it quickly out of gear. Don't ease onto the accelerator and ease off the it or you won't release the tension in the gears, allowing you to pop it into neutral. You have to be more aggressive with the throttle and the shifter.

I see lots of references to not having to double clutch after the test. What's the logic for requiring double clutching during the test?

Rather than (ahem) re-inventing the wheel, I copied this from Wikipedia:

The purpose of the double-clutch technique is to aid in matching the rotational speed of the input shaft being driven by the engine to the rotational speed of the gear the driver wishes to select (directly connected to rotating wheels). When the speeds are matched, the gear will engage smoothly and no clutch is required. If the speeds are not matched, the dog teeth on the collar will "clash" or grate as they attempt to fit into the holes on the desired gear. A modern synchromesh gearbox accomplishes this synchronization more efficiently. However, when the engine speed is significantly different from the transmission speed, the desired gear can often not be engaged even in a fully synchronized gearbox. An example is trying to shift into a gear while travelling outside the gear's speed or directional range, such as accidentally into 1st from near the top of 2nd, or intentionally from reverse to a forward gear whilst still moving at speed.

Double clutching, although time consuming, eases gear selection when an extended delay or variance exists between engine and transmission speeds.

Although double clutching is a testing requirement when obtaining a commercial driver's license, most experienced truckers learn to shift gears without using the clutch. This is known as float gears , which thus eliminates the clutch except during starting and stopping. Skip shifting is when a gear is left out, usually on an upshift, for example shifting 2-4-6 while accelerating with the help of gravity down a hill. This technique saves unnecessary shifting work and saves fuel.

Conversely, in order to shift down, engine RPM must be increased while the gearbox is in neutral and the clutch is engaged. This requires the driver to slow the vehicle sufficiently, shift into neutral, apply throttle to bring the RPM up to a suitable speed, and finally shift into gear. This operation can be very difficult to master, as it requires the driver to gauge the speed of the vehicle and throttle to the intended gear accurately; vehicle weight and road gradient are important factors as they influence the vehicle's acceleration or deceleration during the shift. Double clutching is when the clutch pedal is depressed while shifting to neutral to match engine speed to the intended gear and vehicle speed, and again depressed for shifting into gear.

Relax....I too drive manual transmissions, everyday back and forth to class in fact. These are totally different animals. You will get better rapidly, but you have to relax. Remember your rpm's and get it there and it will go everytime. In fact this was my only issue on my cdl exam.

Bonarro, you're going to be perfectly fine. The only thing you have to worry about at this point is putting unnecessary stress on yourself by having unrealistic expectations. You've been in the truck for one day!!!! Let me tell ya right now - there isn't a driver in America that doesn't grind gears sometimes. Not even the ones that have been driving for decades. I drove for 15 years and I was as good as anyone out there. But I ground gears sometimes. I had days I couldn't have backup up to the broad side of a barn. I had days where I made mistakes I shouldn't have made when I was in school.

That's the reality of life in a big rig. We're all fatally flawed human beings and there's no way around it.

Relax and allow yourself some leeway. I love the fact that you have high expectations and you want to get in there and be awesome. Because of that attitude you will indeed likely turn out to be awesome. But you'll actually accelerate the learning process by allowing yourself to relax and accept your minor mistakes.

You should expect to have some good days and some bad days. You should expect that some people are going to pick up on certain things faster than you will. Learning to drive these things is not a predictable process where you make consistent improvements. You will have setbacks from time to time. You'll get better at some things for a while and then suddenly it's like you forgot how to do them.

Just relax and trust that things will turn out perfectly in the end. Having high expectations of yourself is excellent. But make sure they're realistic. Don't be afraid to laugh at yourself sometimes. Don't be afraid to ask someone for advice if they've picked up on something a little more quickly than you did. Try to enjoy the learning process and know that giving it your best day in and day out will get you where you want to go in spite of the inevitable ups and downs you'll experience.

As far as that clutch goes, think of it as "kicking" the clutch more than actually depressing it, ya know what I mean? It only has to go in like an inch. And you may have heard already that you can "float" gears - meaning you don't need a clutch at all to shift. So your shifting will ultimately turn out the same whether you use the clutch or not. Obviously you have to use it in school and during testing. But for now, just think of it as "kicking" or "tapping" the clutch as opposed to depressing and holding it like you do in a four wheeler.

It's actually very common for students who have never driven a standard to catch on more quickly than people who have because they don't have the "bad habits" of clutching it like a four wheeler. You have to unlearn the bad habits and learn new ones. That will take a little time, but obviously you'll get it just fine.

Bonarro, I actually think having experience with a manual transmission is detrimental to learning to shift a big rig. What PJ said is right though, it's all about the RPM. These truck transmissions are designed completely different than a standard auto/pick-up transmission. You can just about shift a car's manual transmission at whatever RPM you want because the transmission is synchronized so that the gears will mesh whenever you want them to. In a big rig the RPM has to be just right so that they will mesh and be synced together.

Another big difference is that you only need to push that clutch in an inch or two, just enough to disengage the clutch plate. When you push it to the floor you are engaging a clutch brake which slows or stops the gears from spinning in the transmission which makes it even harder for you to get them to mesh together. You only push it to the floor when starting from a standstill because at that point you don't want them spinning.

It will take you some practice to break your automotive shifting habits, but you will have to do it the way the truck wants to be shifted or it will never respond correctly. Listen to what your instructor says about the RPM they want you to shift at and don't let the RPM drop down so low that you can't get it to slip into the next gear. You've got to get it in the next gear before the RPM drops off too far. That whole double clutching thing takes some timing and practice. You can actually practice the rhythm of it just sitting in a chair and pretending you're pushing in a clutch while shifting an imaginary shifter. The rhythm should be just two quick short pumps of the clutch. I heard someone describe it in this forum as being the rhythm of the old "Adam's Family" song and that is just about as best a description as I can come up with.

If it's any consolation, you won't be double clutching very long. That double clutching is only for the driving test. Once you've got it down enough to pass the test you can "float" the gears from then on. Floating gears still requires knowing where your RPMs are, but you will be shifting without using the clutch. I don't know of any Drivers out here on the road that are consistently double clutching. If they were we'd all have overly developed left legs because we sure do shift a lot of gears getting a days work done.

Thank you all for your input, I can't express how much I appreciate it. I know I'm putting excess pressure on myself. I really need this to work out. Like many Americans,my previous career in a bad economy has left me hanging by a thread financially. I really need this driving career to work out. I'm going to do my best to digest all the input you guys were so kind to provide. Tomorrow is another day, another chance to do better. Thanks again to everyone.

It is just like they said, some days you do it all perfectly, and some days are like you just started. I float pretty much all the time unless I am under a heavy load going up or down hills. Then I drop back to clutching. On our Cascadia, there was an engine brake control on the steering wheel and it was right where I liked to hold the wheel with my right hand. When the jakes are on, it will slow the truck down and make shifting difficult. Even what is normally a simple shift, from 9nt to 10th at highway speeds all of a sudden would grind.

Heh, wait until you have been in the truck a while and then get back in a car. The other night my wife picked me up from the airport and I drove her car home. She started laughing at me, and I had no clue why. Well, I pulled up to a stop light and turned into the next road really wide to make the right turn. She said, "Honey, you dont have a trailer behind you, you can take those turns a little tighter".

I am guessing right now, you are also just in a bobtail. Once you get in one with a trailer, the weight of the trailer makes the tractor work and drive more smoothly. I still hate bobtailing. Because the tractor is designed to pull that load, everything just works better including the shifting.

Yep, it just a phase we all have to endure. Once you are out there and floating for a while it will catch you in reverse. Get in you manual car and grind the gears because you want to float them.

Bonarro, Check out this YouTube video on double clutching the best I've seen.

We actually sold our pickup with the manual tranny, cuz we were rippin' it up everytime we came in off the truck. But we still slow down way to much on exit ramps, and coming up to lights and stop signs... . TSB is worse than me...I tell him he's driving like an old trucker...