Accident While In Training.

Old Rookie wrote:

This industries' "training standards" are crap... period. A few years of driving experience should not qualify you to be a "trainer". Just because you can drive, doesn't mean you can/should train.

Training should never be conducted in a "team environment." If companies can't/won't provide the proper personnel and environment for training... they just shouldn't even try.

There are no road training standards at the industry level. If 1 year of experience isn't enough (IYO), then what exactly is? Three? Five? Perhaps ten? Where should the line be drawn? Less than 1 year, definitely not enough.

Realize that on the surface it might appear as if becoming a trainer is as easy as "just asking". We have several trainers on this forum. Take Susan (recently promoted to TT Moderator) for instance...she is now a trainer for West Side. Based on my recollection of her posts regarding her decision, she definitely went through additional training and an evaluation process. It was far from automatic. I believe 1 year of accident free and on time delivery can in some cases qualify the right driver as a potential trainer. Me personally,...I think I had the "head" and skills to train after about 1.5+ years of NE driving experience (two winters). That's me. IMO completion of two winters, might be a good starting point for most to be considered pre-qualified as a trainer.

I agree with Brett, team "training" works if there is a set period of genuine trainer observation; evaluating the students skills, planning knowledge and approach to different scenarios. At Swift this is 50 hours,...once eclipsed the trainer, student, and driver manager jointly make the decision to "team" train from that point forward. I think the process breaks down many times due to lack of compliance and accountability, and that's a two-way street. I strongly believe the student must be their own advocate and hold not only themselves accountable but also the trainer and company for sticking to the process. As a prerequisite every one of the training companies reviews their process with the student before hand. There should be no surprises once underway.

It's not a perfect system, and likely never will be. Training success requires quality and talented people, working together and firing on all cylinders.

This industries' "training standards" are crap... period. A few years of driving experience should not qualify you to be a "trainer." Just because you can drive, doesn't mean you can/should train.

Training should never be conducted in a "team environment." If companies can't/won't provide the proper personnel and environment for training... they just shouldn't even try.

I also have no argument with any of that. I wouldn't mind if the mentoring was a team environment, as long as the student had a good amount of road time in a solo environment first.

Like Prime and some others have two phases of training. The first phase the truck is supposed to be dispatched solo, with the student doing most or all of the driving and the mentor riding along in the passenger seat. Then the second phase is done as a team.

I'm fine with that scenario. As long as the student has a good amount of time on the road as a solo driver and they're ready to run team then let em have at it. But no one should be running team right away after getting their CDL.

My issue with the team training is the maximizing of miles. Training teams shouldn't be expected to crank out 5000-6000 miles like experienced teams cause both the trainer and trainee need to be awake for certain things. Its freaking exhausting. And how.much can you retain when tired? How much patience will the trainer have when tired? Plus the trainee then feels.pressured to drive faster to pump out the miles and keep up with the experienced driver.

The other issue i have is the lack of backing trainees get during the team phase-- which is when they should be backing and learning. Brett stated on another thread that backing should be learned in the yard---but that isn't how its done. So you have trainers who want to crank out the miles and if it takes a student 20 minutes to back into a door. That is 20 miles of pay the trainer is losing. The trainee gets frustrated cause they can't get in the door and the trainer gets frustrated cause he is losing miles while backing into the door, and the trainee doesn't learn when the trainer takes over.

I have a trainee on my truck at the moment. My first. She already has had more backing practice in 20k miles than I did in all of training. I've made sure to show her everything I wasn't taught and how to correct my rookie mistakes. I also remember the fear and frustration of being new, so I think I'm more patient than my trainer was. I had her drive a lot of US highways to improve her shifting from the very first day.

And I told her from the start "I can run 3000 a week by myself so anything you do is icing on my cake. Practice and learn, don't try to compete with me." I'm a company driver, so I don't care about the money so much.

But as a trainer am I supposed to watch her drive 40,000 miles sitting next to her? At some point it is jsut practice and no longer learning.

I don't think its about length of time a trainer has. Its about attitude. But at some point, the trainer does need sleep in a team situation.

I spent the first 10 days gradually moving to the sleeper because some people get more nervous when being watched. It took me awhile to trust sleeping while she was driving, but she is really good now. So good, if I were to team permanently, she would be my choice.

It comes down to good trainers and bad. Good students and bad. If someone is a defensive driver in their car they will be in a big rig.

I have speed rules and ramp.rules. if you don't like taking them slowly, get off my truck cause I want to live.

I also think BOTH the trainee and the trainer are responsible for what happens in training. Questions need to be asked and answered. Trainees need to speak up. Trainers need to be patient and compassionate.

Rainy wrote:

The other issue i have is the lack of backing trainees get during the team phase-- which is when they should be backing and learning. Brett stated on another thread that backing should be learned in the yard---but that isn't how its done.

Swift requires 40 documented backs over 200 hours of driving. Does it always happen that way? No...back to compliance and accountability and all the moving parts working in synch. I agree with your mileage point though...working up to those numbers is one thing, but first week as a team? Some can handle it, some can't.

Both G-Town and Rainy D. make a number of excellent points. I'm sure both of them are/would make excellent "trainers."

However, my impression, after what I admit is a very limited time in the industry (I just passed my 1 year solo mark and only have about 120K solo miles), is that many/most "trainers" are not in their league.

While the onus for successfull training does rest, somewhat, with the trainer and the trainee... the trucking companies have a long way to go with respect to defining, establishing and maintaining the policies, procedures, standards, environment, etc. which are/should be considered critical to the process.

Both G-Town and Rainy D. make a number of excellent points. I'm sure both of them are/would make excellent "trainers."

However, my impression, after what I admit is a very limited time in the industry (I just passed my 1 year solo mark and only have about 120K solo miles), is that many/most "trainers" are not in their league.

While the onus for successful training does rest, somewhat, with the trainer and the trainee... the trucking companies have a long way to go with respect to defining, establishing and maintaining the policies, procedures, standards, environment, etc. which are/should be considered critical to the process.

Thanks. ::blows kiss:::

I'm not sure I'd even want the mileage upped until the last couple of weeks. By that time the trainee would know everything and it it just tweaking and fine tuning . I'm hoping to let her run solo the last week and have me just watch. That way she knows she can do it alone.

There are some GREAT trainers out there. I've met many, and many have helped me when I went solo.

The problem? People don't brag about good stuff, they complain about bad stuff. Also, sometimes great trainers have to be the meanie and tell someone trucking isn't for them. A great trainer can't make someone into a great driver. And a company can't know what is going on in a truck unless the trainees speak up.

I have first hand seen trainers fired for their actions while another was permanently removed from training. Prime scrutinized my record and got Sales to approve my delivery record, logs to approve me, the claims department reviewed my claims to make sure I'm securing equipment and following procedures, Safety went over my accident/CSA/critic event history, and of course dispatch ...all had to approve me. I know people who applied to be trainers and were rejected.

Prime even has optional classes when you upgrade about logs, being a company driver and more.

Accountability only works if issues are reported. New drivers are afraid to rock the boat.

I would LOVE to see them give a trip planning class....heck..I'd even teach it.

Rainy...cats out of the bag.

Congratulations for taking this step, becoming a trainer, the industry and Prime will benefit greatly.

There are some GREAT trainers out there. I've met many, and many have helped me when I went solo.

The problem? People don't brag about good stuff, they complain about bad stuff. Also, sometimes great trainers have to be the meanie and tell someone trucking isn't for them. A great trainer can't make someone into a great driver. And a company can't know what is going on in a truck unless the trainees speak up.

I was my trainer's first student. Man, who wants to be the guinea pig to see if this person is going to be a good trainer or not? But I had a good gut feeling about him, and it turns out I was correct. Since me, he's had a couple dozen students at least, and the majority of them trifecta (i.e., pass all three elements of the CDL test on the first attempt). He's also had a few students who washed out, of course, but he's even been to the big banquet that Prime has every year for their 15 best trainers.

I've thought quite a bit about why he's so good at what he does over the past couple of years, and here's what I've come up with.

First, and foremost, he absolutely loves to train. I mean, he really enjoys seeing someone learn a new skill and improve and succeed. He lives for it. Yes, he's a lease operator, and he wants to make money, but that isn't why he trains. I think if he could make more money without training, he'd still train. He definitely takes breaks from training now and then, but never more than a month.

Second, he's got very high standards for drivers -- all drivers, including himself. He doesn't compromise on that, either, which can be a little annoying when you're his student. I'd be like, can't you just chill for a minute, dude? But he'd be like, nope, don't ever do that again.

Third, he's really funny, and fun to be around. He's very outgoing and social. I'm not that way naturally, though I have learned that skill somewhat over the years. The point is that he's the kind of person that knows how to draw a student out of his shell, when needed. That's pretty rare.

I think I've just made a list of things to look for when you're trying to find a trainer. If you have any say in who is going to train you to drive a big truck, for goodness' sake, exercise that right. I rejected two trainers before I got on my trainer's truck. Sure, it took longer to get going, but that week of waiting for the right person was well worth it.

Rainy...cats out of the bag.

Congratulations for taking this step, becoming a trainer, the industry and Prime will benefit greatly.

Thanks. I'm not sure I'll keep doing it though. My FM is soooo good that we have no down time...I mean NONE. Which makes showers, eating and just a mental health break hard. We delivered today and said we were going to get washed out and eat cause I got the load in early. We were in loves eating about to shower when the next load came...which we had to.leave right then. This load had some time on it, so no big deal. Get to the shipper and of course it won't be ready until WAY WAY past the appt time. So showers will be rushed along the way.

I just don't like the team lifestyle. At least solo I can plan stops, get a room if I want, relax. This is just hectic. Seriously 5880 miles this week! I managed 702 in one day, she did 580. I know my FM said "wow..they do well together. Let me kill them with miles" lol

If I could cap off the miles per week then maybe I would continue. I'm not sure at this point I want to. But, I am totally willing to help others in anyway I can.

Sambo, I have no issue at all with what you're saying but unfortunately a lot of trainers are lease drivers. In fact, that's part of the business model for these large carriers. This is how they help their lease drivers succeed. The company will supply the lease driver with a student to train at a reduced wage. The lease driver makes more money, the company gets more trainers, and the student gets trained. This is a pretty common practice now.

I don't know how that salary model would be worked out with a lease driver. A salary is always a "disincentive" to do more work, as opposed to mileage pay being an incentive to do more work. If you put them on salary they're going to want to drive a certain number of miles and then quit. There's no sense in driving any further if you can't make more money.

This has been one of those neverending issues in trucking that no one has ever really seemed to figure out. With all of the things the DOT regulates it amazes me that they won't set some sort of minimum training standards for truck drivers. Truck drivers should get a significant portion of their road training while they're still in school, not out in the real world hauling freight.

And it's odd because the trucking industry has always been clamoring for new drivers, and yet the length of private schooling is so short that the government won't back student loans the way they will for other trade schools. I went to school for a year for Harley Davidson mechanics and was given a full loan from the government for $12,000 to cover the entire thing. I had a part time job during schooling to cover my living expenses.

If the DOT would require a minimum amount of training time, private schooling would then qualify for federal backing and students could get loans to go to private schools. They would spend 3 - 6 months there, depending on how long the minimum requirement is. Then the students can relax and get their road training at school instead of in the real world trying to hustle and make money.

This has been an issue for decades. It doesn't seem like you'd need a team of rocket scientists to come up with a better system. But somehow here we are still to this day and everyone is walking that fine line between safety and productivity.

At JB HUNT, trainers are company drivers and get paid a bonus per day on top of the miles and stops made. I had 2 great trainers here at JB. 1 in regional and another when I switched to local.

You would be far from the first trainer who tried it once and said the heck with that. I had never trained anyone, not once. And obviously I love teaching people, but I loathed the idea of sharing that tiny space with someone else. I lived in the truck most of my career. Didn't even have a home or vehicle most of the time. That space is only 8 x 8 or so and it amounted to the entirety of the space I had to myself in the whole world.

I've had the idea for a long time that companies should rotate students frequently amongst drivers who were qualified to train instead of pairing two people together for extended periods of time.

Say I decided, "Ok, I'll train sometimes." Then I might get a message, "Stop at the T/A in Littletown, PA and meet truck 12345 and pick up his student." I'd have that student a few days or a week and then get another message to either swap students with another trainer or hand mine off to one who doesn't have one at the moment. Just keep rotating students amongst different trucks frequently.

That would mean sometimes you have a student, sometimes you don't, which would be a nice break. It would also make it random, so you're not stuck with or without students for long periods of time.

But the best part is that each student would get a chance to learn from all different trainers, and you would have a large variety of opinions on each student and on each trainer. So the company would be able to evaluate each person's performance and personality a whole lot better than they can when you just stick two people together for a long period of time.