Being A Trainee At Prime Is An Awful Experience.

That's OK, Bob. There are many who don't understand what is so great about playing football, just as you don't get what benefits there are in teaching others.

True, some teach or instruct for money. The leadership on this forum take a dim view of owner-ops that exploit new students to improve their own bottom line. But there are many more (and you rarely hear about them) who do a great job passing on not only "how to back a truck up" but inspire new drivers in coming into the great adventure of over the road trucking.

I'm the kind who does it for free. I get a great satisfaction from passing on my knowledge.

As for things like trucking, companies might do a little bit of checking out potential instructors. But truck driving is actually a dangerous job, and you can be sure the mercenaries (who do it for the money) won't really last long.

Here's a famous quote that explains my feelings:

If you want to build a ship don’t herd people together to collect wood and don’t assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the vast and endless sea.

-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

I get what Bob is saying, though, and I think he does have a point.

Errol, you're saying a lot of people teach simply for the love of helping others and I totally agree. This forum is a great example of that. There are a ton of fantastic people here who love to help others make their way in this industry. They're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts because no one is being paid to be here. Those who would do something for free are almost always the very best ones to have. It's the "Volunteer Fireman Model" where they seek out a handful of truly dedicated volunteers to rush out into the night to save people's lives. Only a truly dedicated person would volunteer for something so demanding.

Bob, on the other hand, is saying that anyone who would take on the roll of being a trainer because they're chasing a tiny little raise in their salary and is doing so in spite of the fact that they're not really interested in teaching is a group of questionable worth, and I would agree with that. Going on the road with a student is a massive commitment, sacrifice, and responsibility. I've known a ton of amazing drivers over the years who never wanted to train students on the road because the difference in money wasn't nearly enough to justify the sacrifices.

When it comes to attracting the best people for the job there are really two different approaches that work. If you only need a tiny number of truly dedicated people you can use the volunteer model and you'll find some truly special people that way. You just won't find very many.

If you need a fairly large number of amazing people and you want to set the standards very high you'll have to pay a significant salary. Professional sports uses this model. Then you'll attract a ton of people and you can pick and choose the best from that group.

The worst way to attract great people is to pay a small salary in return for a large sacrifice. You're really only going to attract people who are looking to make a few extra bucks. The worst part is that these people are well aware of the fact that you're not paying them nearly enough for what you're asking them to do, therefore many of them are not going to be willing to put forth their best effort, if much effort at all. You're paying them a little, they'll give you a little in return.

This last model is unfortunately the one the trucking industry uses and it has always been a dismal failure overall. Yes, you get some really amazing trainers but you get a lot of bad ones too. You know me, I'm always telling people to toughen up and stick it out and be committed to making it in this industry. I can't stand complainers and I think most of the complaining you hear about this industry comes from crybabies who could not or would not meet the difficult demands of this industry.

However, one problem I feel is very real is the lack of quality trainers, and I've always believed it was because of the pay model they're using. The trucking companies need way more trainers than they could get through volunteering alone, yet the profit margins are so thin that they can not or will not pay a significant salary to trainers. They've decided they're going to pay only a small enough incentive to attract just enough trainers and they'll simply hope to deal with the significant number of lower quality ones that will inevitably be interested.

Actually the pay model for trucking overall is in the same boat. Companies start new drivers off at the lowest possible salary they can pay to attract enough drivers. They know they'll get a few outstanding ones, but many of the people who roll through show very little commitment and have very little potential for performing at a high level. They don't want to pay enough to attract a large group of fantastic drivers, and they won't get very many people to volunteer for the job, so they chose the middle ground and have decided to suffer through the inevitable hardships that's going to cause.

Actually I think I've just written a significant portion of my next podcast. This is an interesting subject.

Brett (and Bob) has a point:

Bob, on the other hand, is saying that anyone who would take on the roll of being a trainer because they're chasing a tiny little raise in their salary and is doing so in spite of the fact that they're not really interested in teaching is a group of questionable worth, and I would agree with that.

I was actually replying mostly to Bob's comment:

for such little reward

Just like most that hear a “Greater Calling”, some people get their reward on another plane, not their pocket book. Ask Boy/Girl Scout leaders, church disaster teams, AA leaders, and so forth. I have known several school teachers that, at the time I knew them, were staying in the profession for a paycheck. Many of these did a passable job in the classroom, but on a personal side, they seemed to be burned out in some way.

And, just like in education, the main powers invest too little in teaching. (Ask any school district superintendent if they get all the funding they need.) So with trucking schools, both private and company sponsored. Those drivers and O/Os looking for a few extra bucks just may take on a student to get the money. Without any knowledge of how to teach, other then the way they learned, whether that was by real coaching, or yelling or insulting the student.

So in fact, I agree with much of Bob's thought, too.

Just like most that hear a “Greater Calling”, some people get their reward on another plane, not their pocket book. Ask Boy/Girl Scout leaders, church disaster teams, AA leaders, and so forth.

Absolutely. I totally agree.

I think the main difference with regard to truck driving trainers who take students on the road is that experienced solo truck drivers are already out on the road making really good money. They're being offered the opportunity to take on a much greater level of risk and responsibility, make some pretty extreme sacrifices, and provide services which greatly benefit the company all for what amounts to a very small difference in salary. In the end, the difference in salary doesn't fairly compensate a person for the level of risks and sacrifices they're making, nor for the benefit the company gains from their services.

So the only people who are going to accept that opportunity are a few people who really, really love to teach and would prefer to have someone with them on the road, and a large contingency of people looking to make a few extra bucks even if it means putting up with the "necessary evil" of having a student with them.

That's why you have so many fantastic drivers who are unwilling to train students on the road and so many lousy trainers who really aren't living up to the standards that someone in that position should live up to.

Finally, one of the big reasons companies are doing it the way they're doing it is because they're offering the student as cheap labor to help their lease drivers and owner operators stay in business. This is the most unfortunate circumstance of all in my opinion because most people become lease drivers or owner operators under the assumption they're going to make a lot more money than they did as a company driver. When that turns out not to be the case they accept the "necessary evil" of having a student with them to try to make decent money. In that scenario the student becomes a constant reminder to the truck owner that things are not going as they had hoped and the truck owner consciously or unconsciously becomes resentful toward the student and the student is in fact treated like nothing more than cheap labor.

This situation hasn't changed in decades. When I started in trucking in '93 it was exactly the same way it is today. So it seems that in the end these major companies have determined that financially it makes sense to do it the way they're doing it. It must not be worth it financially to pay trainers enough money to attract the best candidates, even though the lower quality trainers are going to mean higher turnover and a lower level of proficiency for new drivers.

This is a topic that has always been of great interest to me. I think next week I'm going to make a couple of phone calls and talk to some of these companies to find out their take on this situation. I might be able to gain some valuable insights.

I’ve been following along. I see both sides of this coin, so to speak. It is a fact of life, too many people in our society today only think of themselves. Call it a generation thing, or blame it on whatever. However there are still folks and plenty of them that take pride in themselves and what they do. I learned along time ago you can place everyone into one of three catagories

Those who are the best of the best at what they do all they way around.

Those that are dedicated competent and solid

Those that are 20 year mistakes. These are miserable and feel it is there place on earth to make those around them as miserable as they are.

So you basically have a 2 of 3 chance getting a good trainer. I think most people can figure out how folks fit into each of those catorgies without further explanation.

And I fully agree you can have great people that won’t make a good trainer. As several have pointed out it takes alot more than being proficient at the job to be an effective trainer. I have always found the best trainers to be the ones that have a passion for the subject, not the compensation attached.

I spent 22 years as a driver trainer for law enforcement. Now that is a tough crowd. I spent many an hour doing things outside the vehicle and/or classroom volunteering to do it. As Errol, Brett, Old School, G town and many many many more here do for one simple reason. They are passionate about the industry and try to make a difference.

Thank God we still have plenty of these types of folks walking the earth, because they are the ones that truly make a difference in this crazy world we all live in

PJ and Brett, I agree with both of you. True, some great million milers are simply not "trainer" material, and they also have the company president's cell phone number. And just like we preach about "worst company ever" posts written by losers, the trainer who gets the ink in a forum is a lousy trainer. The current director of my Swift Academy was a Swift Mentor (road trainer) for ten years. I hear that his students rarely messed up in their first year. So he is a great example of the "great teacher" I'm talking about. Was he ever described in any post anywhere? Probably not, because his students went on to make money and were happy with that.

As for Mentor Pay, this is the latest from Swift. It sure seems like a great incentive for mentors to produce really good drivers :

Announcing NEW Company Mentor Incentive Program Effective February 1st!

The main components of the program are as follows:

1. Company mentors will be paid all miles while training (no change from current program).
2. Company mentors will receive $100 per week, in addition to their standard pay, when they have an assigned student.
3. Company mentors will be eligible to receive a bonus payout when the student they have upgraded has driven 30,000 solo miles, based on the student driver’s rank in the Swift Driver Ranking program. The schedule is as follows:
   • If the student is ranked Platinum at 30,000 solo miles the company mentor will receive a $1,000 bonus
   • If the student is ranked Gold at 30,000 solo miles the company mentor will receive a $750 bonus
   • If the student is ranked Silver at 30,000 solo miles the company mentor will receive a $500 bonus
   • If the student is ranked Bronze at 30,000 solo miles the company mentor will receive a $250 bonus
   • If the student is driving on an unranked fleet at 30,000 solo miles the mentor will receive a $500 bonus

On a TT personal note, I really try to push positive things here when I can, and not to push back on what I feel is personal negativity. So I dind't even try to answer much of Bob's post which I felt to be his personal opinion.

Happened to me during my PSD training their best way to do is get the excersize in during 30 minute break. The next thing you should do is contact Your fleet manager and let him know. They will remove you off that truck. It’s best you think it’s not going to be good for you. I had a bad PSD expirence with my first trainer got done licensed and TNT had a great trainer.

First let me say,

Prime itself is an excellent company. Never seen a company so willing to do things just to make it's employee's a little hapier. The problem is not them, it's the fact that there last phase of training forces you to share a truck with a random owner operator for two months.

It is awful.They don't care about their own health and make no time to do anything for it. I will want to take 45 min to exercise but he doesn't want to make time for that due to the load being due, but then will sit on the phone talking for an hour while doing nothing.

I've informed him numerous times that I can't sleep when the heat is blasting, but he blast it anyway. Then when it's my turn to drive he'll turn off my a/c and make me drive with heat on. So I'm sleepy from being overheated at night and miserable while driving also.

Curses constantly and I hate profanity. Talks to me like a child, even though he drives awful swerving and hitting lines. I rarely do that.

There are so many things, but I'm afraid to get a different trainer because he could be worse, because my psd trainer was worse . He actively TRIED to make me miserable including trying to coerce me into drinking and smoking, neither of which I do.

I'm only two weeks in and im wondering if I have the strength to make it another 2 months will dirty arrogant trucker aholes.

Ugh

Get all your endorsements in before you join that’s my best opinion that way you can get more loads and be placed with a trainer with similar endorsements I wanted to do hazmat but got my hazmat endorsement after TNT and was told I need to get on with another trainer for that. And I already went solo I haven’t dug further to see what will happen with my current truck so I haven’t asked. But just a suggest :)!

Hey Banks, first I hope you don't feel too beat up! You were open and honest with your post and I appreciate that. I covered this in my very long, and probably way too open and honest, training diary, but this initial phase can be super emotional. You're leaving your home, your family, the life you knew, and throwing yourself into a truck with a stranger to forge a new life, all the while trying to wrap your head around the ins and outs of operating a class 8, 80,000 pounds vehicle. When you throw into the mix a trainer who is less than ideal, to say the least, the situation becomes even more difficult and can lead to posting a good post that was, perhaps, hastily titled. We forgive you for bashing Prime in your title. :-)

I will say I'm sorry my diary came off as a bad review of Prime (assuming you're talking about MY diary--could have been a different Paul). It was never meant to be a review--reviews are quick reads that sum up an experience. My diary was a journey, not a summary, and taken as a whole I think the picture isn't negative, at least not on Prime's part. I am actually sitting here in the Campus Inn as we speak. Just finished up the second round of orientation and will get back on the road with another trainer in the next day or two. If you want a summary of my experience with Prime, here it is: I was paid $700 bucks a week to train for a career that is stable and profitable. Though the training was extremely difficult, at the end of that training I was entrusted with a nice new truck...which I promptly ran into an awning. Really dumb move. But then instead of facing the music, I quit, leaving a huge debt to Prime hanging over my head. REALLY dumb move. Did Prime call me about it, pester me, threaten legal action? No. They offered me my job back, whenever I was ready, an open invitation. Prime is really one of the best companies around.

Training is hard, for the trainer and trainee. If you get one who is abusive, as mine was, then call your Fleet Manager. If your FM isn't helping, call the training office. But do some soul searching, find the faults you have and clean those up first. You never know, that may fix the problem. If it doesn't, then you're in the clear and have no reason to not get another trainer. In the end, it's 6 weeks of your life. Gone in the blink of an eye in the long run. Just...don't run into an awning when you upgrade. :-)

Wow!!! Welcome back Paul. Congratulations on this enormous development. I was very disheartened by your decision to quit but am elated that you reconsidered. No words of wisdom except to say good on you for putting your priorities in order. Also, Banks isn’t responsible for the title, that was Indalecio. I will be joining you in March! Getting a few more paperwork details in order but am approved by recruiting & security. God bless you & your family. Good luck & stay safe.

Wow wow wow!! This was a great surprise.

Errol, I recognize that there are good trainers doing it for the right reasons, competent idealists if you will, and that you very may well be one of them. And those, you, folk deserve a hell of a lot more than a 15 percent tip for their, your, service to your employer and to the industry at large.

Prime is great about if you need money they LOAN 200$ I believe a week for food on the road. You do pay it back in small weekly payments.but great idea on having everything set up before you go into training.

I must admit that I'm jealous but happy that Banks is using such a golden opportunity! I'll be like Brett & only see the inside of a rig when I get to Springfield. But even if I had the same opportunity, I couldn't take advantage of it since I have to work almost everyday until I leave to get my finances in order. Good luck Banks, thank you G-Town for being such a good person!