Where To Draw The Line...and When Do I Cross It?

Hi guys n gals.

As those of you that managed to wade through my rather lengthy ramblings in the training forum know; I am now footloose and fancy free....well, sort of.....roaming the highways and byways of this great country.

You are probably also aware that, at the request of a CDL school classmate, I elected to try out team driving for at least the first few months out here.

So; bearing that in mind, If i may, I would like to ask the experienced hands on this site for some guidance about an area that is weighing on my mind.

But first; a little background.....

My team mate and i became pretty friendly during training and he was one of the guys that came to me often asking for advice. Part of my reasoning when deciding to agree to team with him, was the fact that during school, he was one of those that took it extremely seriously and didn't spend valuable time horsing around rather than studying or practising. His sincerity and motivation appeared and still appears to be real.

When he approached me about going OTR with him, he seemed genuinely worried about being able to deal with the multitude of additional aspects of the job. He appeared to correctly understand that there is a great deal more to it than merely keeping it between the lines and the shiny side up.

Given my earlier statements in the training diaries about 'loving to teach' and a desire to do so again at some point in the future, I thought to myself, "Why not?". Put your money where your mouth is....right? lol

And so; to the horns of my dilemma...

I am shown in my profile as a ' Rookie solo driver' ..... rightfully so in this great country and also with Stevens. However; as stated in my very first post, I am not quite a true 'Rookie driver', given my 9 years experience with trucks in the UK and Europe.

However; in the world of Stevens Transport, my European experience counts for little or nothing. He and I graduated from their training within a day or two of each other and are therefore technically, legally and every other way, equals. We have both passed through their system successfully and been granted the trust and privilige of operating one of their vehicles. The same freedoms along with the concurrent restrictions apply equally to both he and I. This is totally right and proper and not what I am pondering... I have no ego related problem with any of it. In fact, i wouldnt want it any other way..... What is excerising me is more of an ethical and operational concern.

Chris ( I can't keep referring to him as 'he'.....seems rather rude! LOL) has shown himself to be quite proficient behind the wheel, extremely motivated when it comes to 'getting 'er done' and loves keeping the left door shut and cranking out the miles....all well and good. He also asks tons of questions about his areas of concern ie: dealing with shippers/receivers, required paperwork, Qualcomm macros, HOS etc., etc. Again; no problem. I am more than happy to give him my understanding of any given scenario and also to admit when I'm not 100% sure, and then to try to figure it out with him. This is great. To my, admittedly possibly peculiar, way of thinking, it's what teaming is all about...supporting one another to obtain the desired result....safely, legally and as effectively and efficiently as possible.

So; "What's the problem?", you may ask.

It's this: During the first few days we drove together, I spent a considerable amount of time in the passenger seat, watching and analyzing Chris's driving. All ego aside; I wanted to be as sure as I could that I was able to retire to the bunk to rest and that everything would be alright. To be perfectly blunt and honest, it was self-preservation kicking in. Would I live to drive again? lol

During these hours of observation, certain things began to; not exactly worry me; but more like 'play on my mind'. As stated before, technically he's quite proficient, especially given his experience level. And; there was nothing that was blatantly unsafe. Rather; it was/is areas of technique and possibly 'over confidence'.

Now then; admittedly, I drive like a granny with arthritic ankles....I try to be very smooth with everything.. braking, acceleration, cornering etc. Of course, I will use the brakes as necessary when required, but I do tend to try to approach stoplights, stop signs etc. in such a way that they require very light brake application or none at all if I can get away with it at a traffic signal! lol

Again; because playing the fuel game is important to me, I try to accelerate evenly and to get the gear changes as smooth as possible.

To my way of thinking Chris is a bit rough around the edges with all of the above. Braking is harder and later than I like and acceleration with 'jerky' shifts the norm...although admittedly some of this is the auto shift, and may improve as he becomes more familiar with it's personality and quirks. 😜

Chris has already settled into a pattern of one handed driving, which I don't really like and I'm not totally happy with his right side lane change.. he doesn't really 'lean and look', but tends to totally depend on the hood mirror. He chats on the phone (hands free of course) constantly and regardless of where we are...city, countryside, shipper/receiver etc.

Good grief! I'm running out of characters...

I'll get to my question immediately in the next post.... promise!

continued..

Continued.....

I'm back! lol

To the question then.

Where do I draw the line and when do I cross it.

I am not officially a trainer at Stevens. I have no additional authority over my team mate..... with the exception of a little 'gravitas' that is normally and naturally accorded to those of us of a certain age!! 😜lol

But; obviously from his request to team with me; Chris regards me as somewhat of a mentor.

What I'm struggling with is; when do I say something, make suggestions or actively ask him to do something differently?

Despite my 'all ego aside' assertions; am I being egotistical? Should I just let Chris develop his style naturally?

In safety related situations, I have absolutely no problem with speaking up. If nothing else; 20+ years as an Airline Captain taught me to 'keep the main thing the main thing!! ' lol

I am 20 + years Chris's senior...so I kinda feel somewhat responsible for him.

So; Brett, G-Town, OS, Rainy, Susan, Erroll....in fact any or all of y'all; would you be so kind as to give this worrying old fart some counselling?

The one thing I am certain of is that the advice given on this site will be cogent, forthright and honest, without fear or favor! And that is exactly what I need.

Thank you in advance. 👍😊

Keep it safe out there.

Simon

Hey Simon...

Although Stevens may not officially recognize your experience; many of the things that appear off-center with Chris' driving is because compared to you, he is still rough around the edges. You are already a professional because of driving in England.

Does he observe while you drive? Maybe the best place to start and show him how you change lanes when moving from left to right, emphasizing both mirrors checked, before and during the lane change. Teach him good habits, show him the way.

The one handed driving? Ugh... Steer tire blowout, with only one hand on the wheel, higher risk of a not-so-happy ending. Hopefully he'll never experience one, but perhaps you have or you know someone who has and can address the one-handed issue in that fashion.

I'm a perfectionist (just ask some of the regulars here), I understand the torture of watching someone drive with raw and unrefined skills. 3 months from now, Chris will be much smoother and kinder to the freight.

That's all I got...

Hey Simon...

Although Stevens may not officially recognize your experience; many of the things that appear off-center with Chris' driving is because compared to you, he is still rough around the edges. You are already a professional because of driving in England.

Does he observe while you drive? Maybe the best place to start and show him how you change lanes when moving from left to right, emphasizing both mirrors checked, before and during the lane change. Teach him good habits, show him the way.

The one handed driving? Ugh... Steer tire blowout, with only one hand on the wheel, higher risk of a not-so-happy ending. Hopefully he'll never experience one, but perhaps you have or you know someone who has and can address the one-handed issue in that fashion.

I'm a perfectionist (just ask some of the regulars here), I understand the torture of watching someone drive with raw and unrefined skills. 3 months from now, Chris will be much smoother and kinder to the freight.

That's all I got...

Hi G-Town 😊

That's exactly what I'm looking for; straightforward answers. 👍Thank you.

And yes, the one handed stuff is frankly my biggest worry, for exactly the reason you stated. lol

He does observe a little while I drive but generally and very understandably with him being a total newbie, he's pretty tired by the time he gets done with his stint behind the wheel. Usually he'll sit with me for a little bit before retiring. Then, within a few minutes, the sounds of deep sleep emanate from the bottom bunk! lol We run pretty hard...so i really value him getting good rest.

I did coach him pretty intensely the other day coming out of Buffalo after the snow. To his credit; He seemed to take in what I had to say and we had a nice uneventful trip. 😊

Thanks again. I greatly appreciate the input.

Cheers 😊

As you stated, I am sure he is still rough around the edges. Does Stevens pay a fuel bonus? If so, explain to him that you could make even more money, by being smoother with his deceleration and acceleration. As far as lane changes, teach him to get into a routine. Something like hood, side convex, side straight, out front. Tell him it should take 3 iterations to complete the merge and it finishes with a check down his non turn side mirrors for monitoring traffic. I am sure many could shoot holes in my example, but it is just that, an example. Make sure that whatever method you teach you are doing the same thing. So if he is watching you, it reinforces what you taught him as well as shows that you "practice what you preach."

Just as a thought, his overconfidence may stem from you sitting in the seat beside him. He is confident that you will catch anything he misses with your experience.

Drive Safe and God Speed

Yeah i felt the same when i read the post. Hes' new and you are bothered by him driving like a rookie. be careful not to sound "too trainerish". He might come to resent it after awhile.

And no offense...but are you sure he wanted you mentoring him, or did he think you would be safer to drive with than others? many newbies like teaming to have an extra set of eyes for backing and two brains for problems. although you feel responsible for him, he might see you as just another set of eyes for tight spots. If you werent there, he may have just chosen someone else.

id probably ask him about the one handed thing.

Yeah i felt the same when i read the post. Hes' new and you are bothered by him driving like a rookie. be careful not to sound "too trainerish". He might come to resent it after awhile.

And no offense...but are you sure he wanted you mentoring him, or did he think you would be safer to drive with than others? many newbies like teaming to have an extra set of eyes for backing and two brains for problems. although you feel responsible for him, he might see you as just another set of eyes for tight spots. If you werent there, he may have just chosen someone else.

id probably ask him about the one handed thing.

Hey Rainy 😊

This is exactly the crux of the matter....When should I say something?... if ever? lol

Chris has asked me very specifically to "help me learn". In fact he said, "I learned so much from you at school and i figure I will learn a whole bunch more on the road."

So; I have no problem helping him with anything that he is unsure about...and to be totally fair; he asks me lots of stuff!! Very cool! I make sure that he knows the difference between something that is my opinion or my way of doing something and something that is directly operational in nature.

Where I struggle is when I believe him to be doing something that may not be technically illegal or against policy but that I consider to be unwise. A prime (no pun intended lol) example is the phone... As I stated, he stays on it constantly...doesn't matter where or what he is doing... LA freeway in 7 lanes of traffic...maneuvering in a shipper's yard...anywhere! Personally, I consider this to be a form of distracted driving. I have dropped several hints..... "Hey bud, that darn phone is gonna get you in trouble!"....that sort of thing. He laughs and on we go.

As I said, it's always 'hands free'; so not illegal or against policy.

Things like this are where I can't always decide if my concern(s) are genuinely safety related or am I just a grumpy old bugger that believes my way Is better? lol

Same with his braking technique... Again, to my way of thinking, he approaches stop lights too fast - braking too late and far more heavily than truly required. It seems like he is still driving his car...just a bigger version! lol Has it ever led to a properly unsafe situation? No. But it is uncomfortable to be rocked in the seat or the bunk, not to mention the possible hazards to the freight in back. Will he adjust for different road conditions.....wet v dry etc?

During numerous conversations about his trainer (a lease op) prior to graduating; He has often said that he was required to sit right on the governor at 66mph and keep pushing. So I wonder if this is the cause?

The more i write, the more im beginning to think it might just be me!! lol

As a Pilot, I always had to be so far ahead of the aircraft for safety sake that it comes naturally to be constantly looking and planning ahead on the road.

I understand that he is very early on the learning curve. I also understand that experience is by far the best teacher. I am just struggling with when I should coach directly and when I should let experience be the teacher? To be brutally honest...its probably mainly because I dont wanna be asleep in the back if 'experience' teaches him a harsh lesson! 😜

But anyway; thanks for the replies. I'll just keep on pondering awhile...it's what I do!

Cheers,

Simon

I'm not a trucker yet, but I can tell you my opinion from the standpoint of someone who will soon be trained. If I had asked you to team with me so you could teach me, I'd want that feedback. I'd want you to sit me down and tell me some good stuff you've seen and then lay out the areas in which I can improve. I don't know if that helps...

Simon, I believe your answer is quite simple really. All you need to do is ask Chris if he wants your input. But I’d ask in the most neutral way possible. Nobody enjoys unsolicited words of wisdom. No matter how true or false. Next time you guys sit for break or a meal together, nonchalantly ask him how he would like you & him to coexist in that small space, how he’d like each of you to express concerns, if he’s open to offering critique of certain issues you are concerned about. I repeat, it’s not about offering the advice or criticism on the spot. It’s about creating guidelines & boundaries if there needs to be any. If he’s receptive then I’d offer my words of advice along with real life examples of the horror stories of how those things played out in real life. How can you do this? By showing him threads on here or YouTube videos, anything online to bring the point home.

For example, your worried he isn’t using the mirrors enough when switching lanes? There’s a great thread on here about that very issue, the thread about a driver who didn’t check his flatbed load & was counting his blessings that he didn’t die that day, the thread about the dump truck driver who swerved & flipped his rig on its side, on & on & on.

I wish you the best & a quick resolution to all of your concerns. It’s all in the presentation & the diplomacy used to convey your concerns. God. bless. Good luck & stay safe.

The pickle you're in is one of the very reasons I don't team. Lol. It's easier to just let things go when you don't live and work with them 24-7.

Choose your battles. I like Reyn's suggestion of asking him if he wants your input or not. Even if he says he wants your input, he's not going to change all his habits just because he wants advice. I think you need to decide what things are really important for you to bring up and which ones you can let slide all or most of the time.

Like his braking--that's mostly not a safety issue. You can bring it up once if he wants to hear about it, but after that just let it go. The one hand on the steering wheel--that's more of a safety thing so it's worth bringing up a little more. Still, you have to decide if it's worth making a fuss over if he doesn't improve. If you can manage it, I'd try to stick to the safety stuff and that's it most of the time, throwing in something else only once in a while. You'll ruin your friendship and good experience if you nag on him about every little thing, even if it does help make him a better driver. Trust me--I've done it.

Oh and the phone conversations--bring it up when neither of you are driving. It's an important issue because it obviously makes you feel pretty uncomfortable. Go in with a specific outcome in mind--negotiate a deal with him where he can still talk on the phone (hands free as always) but not all the time. Describe specific scenarios that make you uncomfortable (like you did on here) and see if he'll agree to not use it in those specific scenarios. It may not be perfect, but if you can find a workable arrangement you're both ok with, you can continue to team without having any major issues.

Good luck.