Fired From CR England For Two Accidents

That's what is frustrating when Daniel tries to tell people that they should be able to find a work around on these contracts.

No, I am saying that appear like employment contracts when in fact they are financed loans. All about clear and simple language.

Daniel said:

No, I am saying that appear like employment contracts when in fact they are financed loans. All about clear and simple language.

Actually you are assuming they "appear". You apparently never saw one. And every company is different and even Prime's has changed over the years.

Mine specifically stated : "This is not a guarantee of employment" in bold capital letters.

Lease ops are not "employees" but are independent contractors. So to say one needs to be an employee for. Year would exclude them from leasing.

Mine gave me an amount I would owe if I left. Please stop trying to imply the "evil mega carrier" mantra we hear so often.

For me...the local schools wanted $9,000. I was $72,000 in debt to the point I couldn't afford a bankruptcy attorney. Prime offered me transportation, lodging, a $200 weekly advance to pay for food on the road, and CDL school all based on me staying employed by them. Even if I left i would still have my CDL to take elsewhere.

Two years later I was completely debt free....5 years later I have tens of thousands in the bank and even more in investments and 401k. I could go buy a modest house in cash or even a brand new truck.

There were no surprises or lies or hidden agendas as you implying.

Regardless.... Any trucking company is going to have the right to terminate a driver they deem as unsafe. And since some have been in business for a half a century or more....training millions of drivers that are driving the economy of America.... Well.... Lets just say they know what they are doing.

People call prime a starter company....yet our walls are lined with plaques representing drivers who have been here for decades.

It is only 'paid training' if you succeed, otherwise it is debt for failure.

The moment one signs up for company training they are basically taking out a loan.

This loan must be paid back or it can be forgiven.

Is this succinctly correct?

I'd say that is a fair way to describe it. There is a lot to it though. Trying to reduce it down to such a succinct statement dulls the nuances involved in this whole process of Paid CDL Training Programs.

The part you describe as failure is not so easily put into "clear and simple language." All along in this particular discussion, I've had a feeling we have not heard "the whole story." Typically when we see people in these contracts have accidents with minor consequences, they are given additional training and are allowed to continue in their contractual agreement. I've even seen some jack-knife and rollover accidents forgiven. Who can forget our old friend "Persian Conversion" rolling his truck and then finding out he still had a job? He showed a willingness to learn from his accident. In this case, what seemed like a relatively minor accident resulted in a termination. Which is why I brought up the likelihood of Eric being on some sort of a probationary period. I honestly don't know, since we weren't informed of that. But my experience is that it is highly likely. The way it all unfolded gives that suspicion more weight to me. He insists he wasn't at fault, but that may be exactly what got him canned. The biggest problem is that it wasn't a very prudent move to be backing through that gate in the first place. Eric's insistence the accident was someone else's fault may have ultimately been his own demise.

We are all employed in a safety sensitive position whether we acknowledge that or not. We have safety issues and personnel we deal with daily. Those safety directors have considerable leeway in how they deal with each individual. They may determine that one person's attitude is enough to deem them as a high risk driver. That attitude may not even become apparent until an accident has occurred. Any form of belligerence or unwillingness to follow their advice or accept their instruction is a big red flag. I can empathize with Eric's position, but I know the way for him to get past it and find employment. I wish we had heard from him after his first accident. I think we could have helped him understand the severity of his situation. I don't know that we would have had enough influence on him to keep him from making the poor decision of backing through that gate. Ultimately, I think his termination wasn't due to any damage at that yard in Laredo. I think the safety people took in the whole scenario and determined, "This driver is not making good choices out there on the road. We've given him a chance, but he has proven once again that he is a high risk. We need to make a choice at this point whether we want to continue with him or not." At that point they decided, "We have some better candidates to work with." They cut their ties and moved on. While they have that right, it's not something they relish doing. They made an investment into Eric. Honestly they don't want to be in the bill collecting business. They don't make money that way. They want to move freight, but they have got to be confident they are doing that with safe productive drivers. In this incident they had to make the hard choice to release a driver. I can assure you they felt they gave him the benefit of any doubt they had.

As much of this that I have seen, and as many drivers as I have helped through these scenarios, I am still convinced there's more to this one than we've been privy to. That's just my gut feeling.

Also in response to the cost. The claims department told me it was $5,500 dollars excactly.

Another thing everyone is taught in truck driving school is that we drivers are responsible for making sure the six (6) spaces around our truck are clear and free of obstructions. That applies no matter if we are going forward or backward. What are those spaces?

• Front
• Rear
• Left Side
• Right Side
• Below Us (underneath the truck)
• Above Us (overhanging objects)

Eric defends himself with this comment...

I cannot see an arm above my tractor while backing up because my attention is on my backing and not the person who’s only job it is all day is to lower and raise an arm.

Again. it seems reasonable to the uninitiated. We carry a lot of responsibility out here driving these rigs. They are 70+ feet long, they bend in the middle, and they can be very destructive when mishandled. I just would not have backed through a gate. Eric is a new driver and it is understandable how he could get himself into a mess like this. Here is the kicker. He already had a serious backing mistake.

I backed into a pole that cut power to a plant.

There is no way to calculate what that cost. I had a driver working for me that backed into a power pole, knocking it down. It knocked out power to some traffic lights. Emergency personnel had to direct traffic, and power company trucks had to show up with multiple crews to get it fixed. The bill sent to me was close to 40,000 dollars. You can add on to this one the cost to the plant for the down time and loss of production due to the loss of electricity. It was a costly mistake. His employer took it easy on him and gave him a second chance. They provided him with some additional training, and though he hasn't told us, they probably made it clear that he was now in a probationary period. That just means he needs to avoid any type of accidents during the probation period. Otherwise it will likely mean termination. This is all standard procedure with rookies. Maybe the rookies don't always understand the severity of the situation, but it is still pretty much standard stuff. That is why we advise like we do. We tell people all the time, "Don't hit anything!" We tell people to G.O.A.L. (Get Out And Look) We end up helping people all the time who have gone through this type scenario find new employment.

The most critical thing is that you take responsibility for the error. Beyond that you have got to learn from the experience. There is no way anybody will hire you if you blame your problem on the security guard. You have got to shoot straight with anybody you are talking to. They want to hear that you know you made a stupid mistake. Backing through a gate is not a smart move. Accept that and learn from it. Be prepared to tell them what you have learned. That is what they want to hear. If you don't learn from these experiences you will seriously limit your opportunities. That is what we want to get across. It is critical information that will help you find another trucking job.

That's what is frustrating when Daniel tries to tell people that they should be able to find a work around on these contracts. It is terrible advice. These rookies just want a job. It does no good to tell them to fight their employer who just terminated them. What they need is to accept their responsibility and to move forward by learning from their mistakes. That is the golden formula for developing ourselves into professional drivers. Professional drivers can keep and find new jobs when needed, but they don't do that by being combative and stubborn. They do it by learning from their mistakes. We've all learned some hard lessons out here. That is the way we get better at this.

Playing the blame game never pays off.

Yes I have moved on from it for the most part. To myself I still feel drivers should have more protection and understanding from employers in this situation. However I know it’s my job to check all of my surroundings nobody is diving the truck but me. I talked with a recruiter at us xpress and told her I would not have a problem going out with a trainer for the time they put forth to me. Nor would I have a problem with teaming for 6 months although I really don’t want to team if I’m being honest there are probably going to be situations going forward we’re teaming would actually help me more then hinder me. Whatever comes I’ll put forth to whoever I go with next that I’m willing to learn more and accept my fault to these situations no matter my personal feelings. I’m just a young rookie who needs some help out here and I appreciate all of the advice I’ve been given so far.

Another thing everyone is taught in truck driving school is that we drivers are responsible for making sure the six (6) spaces around our truck are clear and free of obstructions. That applies no matter if we are going forward or backward. What are those spaces?

• Front
• Rear
• Left Side
• Right Side
• Below Us (underneath the truck)
• Above Us (overhanging objects)

Eric defends himself with this comment...

I cannot see an arm above my tractor while backing up because my attention is on my backing and not the person who’s only job it is all day is to lower and raise an arm.

Again. it seems reasonable to the uninitiated. We carry a lot of responsibility out here driving these rigs. They are 70+ feet long, they bend in the middle, and they can be very destructive when mishandled. I just would not have backed through a gate. Eric is a new driver and it is understandable how he could get himself into a mess like this. Here is the kicker. He already had a serious backing mistake.

I backed into a pole that cut power to a plant.

There is no way to calculate what that cost. I had a driver working for me that backed into a power pole, knocking it down. It knocked out power to some traffic lights. Emergency personnel had to direct traffic, and power company trucks had to show up with multiple crews to get it fixed. The bill sent to me was close to 40,000 dollars. You can add on to this one the cost to the plant for the down time and loss of production due to the loss of electricity. It was a costly mistake. His employer took it easy on him and gave him a second chance. They provided him with some additional training, and though he hasn't told us, they probably made it clear that he was now in a probationary period. That just means he needs to avoid any type of accidents during the probation period. Otherwise it will likely mean termination. This is all standard procedure with rookies. Maybe the rookies don't always understand the severity of the situation, but it is still pretty much standard stuff. That is why we advise like we do. We tell people all the time, "Don't hit anything!" We tell people to G.O.A.L. (Get Out And Look) We end up helping people all the time who have gone through this type scenario find new employment.

The most critical thing is that you take responsibility for the error. Beyond that you have got to learn from the experience. There is no way anybody will hire you if you blame your problem on the security guard. You have got to shoot straight with anybody you are talking to. They want to hear that you know you made a stupid mistake. Backing through a gate is not a smart move. Accept that and learn from it. Be prepared to tell them what you have learned. That is what they want to hear. If you don't learn from these experiences you will seriously limit your opportunities. That is what we want to get across. It is critical information that will help you find another trucking job.

That's what is frustrating when Daniel tries to tell people that they should be able to find a work around on these contracts. It is terrible advice. These rookies just want a job. It does no good to tell them to fight their employer who just terminated them. What they need is to accept their responsibility and to move forward by learning from their mistakes. That is the golden formula for developing ourselves into professional drivers. Professional drivers can keep and find new jobs when needed, but they don't do that by being combative and stubborn. They do it by learning from their mistakes. We've all learned some hard lessons out here. That is the way we get better at this.

Playing the blame game never pays off.

Daniel said:

No, I am saying that appear like employment contracts when in fact they are financed loans. All about clear and simple language.

Actually you are assuming they "appear". You apparently never saw one. And every company is different and even Prime's has changed over the years.

Mine specifically stated : "This is not a guarantee of employment" in bold capital letters.

Lease ops are not "employees" but are independent contractors. So to say one needs to be an employee for. Year would exclude them from leasing.

Mine gave me an amount I would owe if I left. Please stop trying to imply the "evil mega carrier" mantra we hear so often.

For me...the local schools wanted $9,000. I was $72,000 in debt to the point I couldn't afford a bankruptcy attorney. Prime offered me transportation, lodging, a $200 weekly advance to pay for food on the road, and CDL school all based on me staying employed by them. Even if I left i would still have my CDL to take elsewhere.

Two years later I was completely debt free....5 years later I have tens of thousands in the bank and even more in investments and 401k. I could go buy a modest house in cash or even a brand new truck.

There were no surprises or lies or hidden agendas as you implying.

Regardless.... Any trucking company is going to have the right to terminate a driver they deem as unsafe. And since some have been in business for a half a century or more....training millions of drivers that are driving the economy of America.... Well.... Lets just say they know what they are doing.

People call prime a starter company....yet our walls are lined with plaques representing drivers who have been here for decades.

I'm not saying nor have I said a single bad word about any organization.

I am simply clarifying what 'paid' company training actually is- a financed loan that has the possibility of forgiveness if one succeeds. If one fails then they are obligated for the costs of their training.

It isn't about right or wrong, it is simply about what paid company training is in as simple of language that can be spoke.

Don't worry eric just remember, trucking isn't a typical job. You are licensed, and you have the independent job life of a business owners. You and you alone have to make every decision in the day. In addition to that, as a professional, you must extend the scope of your responsibility far beyond what has been normal. For example, normal drivers do normal things that put you at risk, but you as the professional are the one who can develop the skill and ability to avoid normal hazards that might not be considered your fault in an accident.

I'll give you an analogy for driving as a profession. Anyone can bang on a piano, but no one looks at a professional pianist who messes up twinkle twinkle little star and says, "it's okay it's not your fault, everyone makes mistakes". it's literally our job not to make those mistakes that normal people make.

Also in response to the cost. The claims department told me I owe $5,000

Yes you do as you signed up for company financed training.

You borrowed money from CR England in simple basic terms. They would have forgiven the loan if you was able to work a year for them.

Anyhow, I know the second accident wasn't your fault- I get it. The gate moved while you were in motion, the gate hit you, you didn't hit the gate.

Reguardless, keep at it, I know you will succeed.

I'd say that is a fair way to describe it. There is a lot to it though. Trying to reduce it down to such a succinct statement dulls the nuances involved in this whole process of Paid CDL Training Programs.

I understand. I'm am looking at it from the end of it than the beginning.

A clear explanation to those that owe the money does not need the term 'contract' to explain why they owe the money.

Eric ...

I'm staying out of this one. The obvious 2nd chance company to try is Western Express. Sorry CFI said no; thought they would help.

A 'little known' one here in Ohio, is Dutch Maid Logistics. They gave Marc Lee a 4th chance (and I know he's salty about me mentioning this) and they've given Optical a 2nd or 3rd .. and we are waiting to hear from him.

Carolina Cargo is no longer an option; Big Scott educated us on this. Something about working w/Penske now; not sure of the details.

That's all I have, as I stated earlier. More as it comes to mind. If you mentioned your location, I've missed it. That's why we LOVE when people go ahead and put it in their profile; ergo..mine!

Again, sorry.

~ Anne ~