C..R. England; Good Or Bad?

So, after serving as a pastor of a church, I am giving that up because I've always wanted to drive a truck, and I am in tremendous debt from years of very low pay. C.R.England has given me the opportunity to go to school, and then upon meeting all their requirements the guarantee of a job. My understanding is that C.R. England is basically like a puppy-mill, that most who enter their program are disqualified for some stupid reason or simply cannot pass the tests, then I hear horror stories of those who did make it through, about how the are "forced into a lease" and that this company basically sets employees up to fail. Does any of this have an element of truth, or are they just disgruntled people, unhappy with their career choice? Despite all the negative things I've read I am still going through with this company, I go into it with the understanding that my pay for the first year or even longer will be low; possibly even lower than my standard of living now (which is pitiful.) I know that this may be the hardest things that I have ever done, but I know that I must remain positive and keep a good head on my shoulders.

Along with my trepidation over my choice in companies, I'm worried about the Pre-Trip inspection , are their any tips for remembering all that has to be done?

I looked into C.R England and I choose not to go with them. There are so many options out there. I did a lot of research on companies. I read safety reports. I looked at pay, hometime, school reputation, etc. It is a very different decision for each person.

Now, with that said, I am in school at the moment. One guy here with me said he went to C.R England. He said when he was done with school, he did not feel prepared to drive a truck. He passed his CDL-A and said he voluntarily downgraded to a CDL - B because he was so scared. He has been here for three days and says he has learned more in three days. That was his experience. Again, it is a very personal decision for each person.

My suggestion is, explore your options. Unless for some reason, C.R England is your only option (which I highly doubt.), apply at a bunch of places. See what you get offered. Then make a pro and con list for each offer. See which one is best for you.

As far as the pre trip. Don't sweat it. I was so worried about the pre trip. Trust me, I test tomorrow and the pre trip is the least of my worries. In the school, I am in, we have done the pre trip at least 2 (sometimes 3) times a day. It is drilled so far in your head, it is easy.

CR England is a joke. I am looking for a good school and I signed on with them. I already have my medical card but they told me i had to redo my physical which was fine. When I was filling out the paperwork you had to list the drugs you've been on in the last five years even if your not taking them anymore. When it was time to see the doctor he asked me about the medication, and I told him that I hadn't been on it for 6 mo. He was a piece of crap. He basically called me a liar and would not pass me so they sent me home. I guess I should have lied and not put any medication. The doctor was so bad I sent a complaint to Lakeside Medical about him. I am know currently looking at going into the Prime school or the Knight school.

It's a well known secret that CRE wish the worst of the worst.

Damn, I had a long reply all done, and the site logged me off before I could send it... Can't go through all that again.

OK, I'm with CRE, so I can tell you much of what you hear is heresay, although there's truth to some of it.

Puppy-mill = yes (can you say Basic Training???)

People sent home = yes (for ever right reason under the sun, with prejudice)

Forced into leases = A RESOUNDING NO - nobody ever asked me or prodded me to lease... Surprise, surprise!

Company sets people up to fail = NO, people set themselves up for failure by being stupid enough to think they could lease a $100,000 vehicle, run the business behind it, when they don't even have $100 in their pocket. I believe CRE has tightened their lease credit worthiness issues, making it a bit harder to lease. BUT, if you do sign up for a lease, you're going to have to either train or team drive to be able to make payments, pay for fuel, accrue a maintenance fund, etc. Most guys are gutting their paychecks by taking the $50-$100 advance at the pump, then wondering why they don't get a paycheck.... Can you say DUH!

Ripoff Reports / disgruntled people = yes, they got canned for one reason or another, of course they're disgruntled

Unhappy with career choices = probably a ring of truth, since some family men were hitting the road, when they weren't ready to leave their kids/families behind...

If you're a veteran, your obligation to work for CRE is six months. If not, it's nine months. They're helping Vets here, guys!

Once you get passed the driver training applications/testing/physical/drug tests, you'll be standing in line at DMV to get your permit. With your permit, you can get out onto the road, so the next step is that you'll train in the yard, as well as with an instructor over the road , doing backing/driving maneuvers (turns, etc) and vehicle movements on the road and in the yard on a daily basis. You'll start early each day, and be done late, weekends, too, but if you're paying attention, you'll learn how to maneuver big rigs safely in a short period of time. They're not very tolerant of being late, so remember, BASIC TRAINING... You'll get exposed for being late, in front of others, so make it there on time! If you don't you're holding every one else up, so don't be that goof that can't wake up to an alarm, or who stays up late like he was still in high school.

I'm gonna send this, and continue in another post so I don't lose my work....

Part II

OK, so you've signed up, you've show up, you've sat through the orientation classes, you've taken some exams, you've been introduced to the vehicles, you've been drug tested, you've done some exertion tests, you've even gotten that CDL permit, you've gotten some over the road training, and lots of in-yard training... What's next? Well, of course, the whole time you're there, you are being taught everything you need to pass the in-cab inspection, the air brakes test, and the pre-trip exam, in addition to all of the driving maneuvers and the over the road with an individual instructors (and 3-5 students per truck). You practice this over and over, learning what's required to pass the DMV test. You learn, or you don't. Your choice. Once you've been cleared by your over the road instructor as being competent enough to take the test, you move on to testing. If you're not fully up to snuff, the instructor will give you one-on-one training. I had a ****ens of a time with double clutch timing, since I drove manual transmissions on cars & motorcycles all my life, so I got the remedial training to get the shifting down. I felt like a dummy, but I got one whole day alone with the instructor, driving all over, learning the process... I had actually done a series of youtube videos on double clutching , so I was kind of getting it, but not totally. My instructor was a little miffed that he couldn't teach me this "more effectively", but I'd had 40 years of clutching standard transmissions, and this was something new to me. He maintained composure, though I could sense his frustration. Other people had advanced that I didn't think were ready, so after a day of driving, when he didn't think I could pass, I told him, EVALUATE ME, and he did, and I passed.

Testing day. The testing is done by CRE instructors that are DMV certified. I got the one gruff guy that had the worst rep (Larry, you know it's you....) with everyone, failing most miserably, except the ladies, for some damn reason... Anyway, we moved into the test vehicle and I did the in-cab with ease, then we moved on to the air brakes test, and he was tweaked right away that I WASN'T going to run through the test verbatim, like I guess most do. I explained to him that I don't memorize things, that I learn them, and that I would name each test one-by-one, explain its' purpose, perform the test, and explain my results. He allowed me to continue, and I passed (much to my surprise). We moved onto the pretrip, where I started on the passenger's side of the engine compartment, and after I'd gone through a couple of items, Larry walked to the opposite side of the engine compartment (but, but....). Anyway, I followed him over there and started spouting off what we'd learned, and he again move onto the next part of the truck, and the next, until we were at the back doors, and he said, you already passed. We moved on to the backing maneuvers. I did the parallel and offset maneuvers without an issue, but on my alley dock maneuver, I could see that I was heading for a couple of cones. We were supposed to be able to knock 4 down, so I decided that I was close enough to where I wanted to be, and just mowed the two cones over. I continued the maneuver until I had bumped the dock, but all the instructors had stopped us before this point. I blew the horn to signal completion of the maneuver, but I don't think Larry heard it (distracted???). Sensing he wasn't happy that I bumped the dock, I pulled forward an few inches, and set the brakes, and again blew the horn to indicate I was done. He ambled up and asked me why I hadn't blow the horn the first time. I finished.... Seeing as how I didn't want to challenge him, I just said I thought he didn't want me to back all the way to the dock, and left it at that. I passed. Onto the road test. The first thing he did in the truck was turn on the radio... I was surprised, but wtf... I drove, shifted fine, got around town fine, onto the freeway fine, but getting off the freeway, he gave me kind of a late indication to get off, and there was an on-ramp feeding into the off ramp, I hesitated momentarily, because there was a car bearing down on me from the on ramp, but didn't stop or anything, and he went ballistic. Not even sure what that was about, but he promised me I was failing (threw the clip board onto the dash...). At the right turn off the freeway (we couldn't turn on red), a motorcycle came around the left side of me, and then a car... I kept my calm, and went when the light turned green. A few blocks down, in the early morning rush of people going to work, someone came from my left, down a side street, with slightly excessive speed. I covered the brake and slowed slightly, and that was all Larry needed. Now he was ****ed, and he was driving back to the yard, in a weird drive-of-shame, I guess, since you didn't drive back to the yard yourself. Oh, well. I knew he was gonna be tough. Next guy that tested me passed me without issue.

Part III

OK, now you've got the CDL! Time to get sent out on the road with a phase I instructor. Mine was bad news, and I won't elaborate here, but suffice it to say, it was a living hell for a month. I could've jumped ship, but I was bound and determined to get this over with as fast as possible. You have to do one month, or 20,000 miles minimum with the phase I trainer. You'll be driving team with them, grabbing loads and moving them across country, as fast as you can. These are the guys that though they could lease a vehicle, run a business, train newcomers, and still enjoy the drive. Mine was bitter of the lease he was in, and talked constantly about how he disliked the company. He violated the rules I was just taught over and over, etc. We ended up driving 24,000 miles in about 4+ weeks, and when we returned to CA, I was done with him.

My first phase II "mentor" was a surfer dude, very laid back, loving his job, and CRE, and I really like him. He let me drive, without all the nonsense the phase I trainer threw at me. All was fine. I had to reach 30,000 miles with him, to phase out (graduate), but he'd had some tickets, and sadly, we got called back to Salt Lake City, where he was terminated (think they called it disqualified....). He'd had two movers with CRE (missed a weigh station, and speeding in a construction zone), and another red-light camera ticket before he got to CRE. That was enough for safety to take away his wings, for insurance purposes. It made perfect sense, once I knew of the 3rd ticket, but still, he like the company, loved driving, and was really (mostly) very laid back. I'm still in contact with him, since we actually became "friends" in the short time together.

His replacement was another good guy. Not much of an issue with him, but he was a little rage-y on the road, using that BIG horn more than I thought reasonable... Anyway, I got my last miles with him, was taken to Burns Harbor, and phased out in an afternoon. I had a truck by evening, and was now a company driver, over the road , SOLO! Yippee! I actually made it. I had a fleet, a truck, and now had a load of tires to drive to SLC, UT. From there, it's been one load after another, all over the country, just like I was promised. I hadn't asked to go home much, but I needed to keep the wheels spinning to make money, so my biggest priority was to DRIVE!

Was I EVER approached about a lease??? -> Absolutely not... I was surprised, actually, and ready for the pitch. Never came.

Am I overjoyed with the company???? Who ever is???

I don't like the way they pay their miles from zip code to zip code, as opposed to actual mileage driven, even if you stay exactly on their routing, or you use the odometer to track your movements. I figure I've been rooked out of 5-15% on most trips, and have never beaten them at their game.

I did learn how to drive a big rig, though, and that's what they promised me. I'm past my six months with them, so I owe them nothing now for the $3000 schooling (which I heard went up to $5000, but that's hearsay).

Will I stay with them? That remains to be seen. I've had some issues with them that didn't get resolved to my satisfaction, but I've had other stuff that went smooth as glass. I can make a lot more moving on to some other company, but when you figure the benefits package in, it seems like a fairly square deal, though I still think I can make more elsewhere.

Road service - I've had some trouble getting speedy road service (stuck one time for 54 hours, when I only need a tow truck tug me off some snow/ice that I couldn't get out of on my own.... There was a lot going on that weekend, snow wise, so maybe they were busy with wrecks, I don't know...

Safety? - I think they strive to be one of the safest carriers out there, but that's up to the drivers, not CRE. I rate them pretty high up on safety, and have only had to meet with them once for a small backing scrape / my fault.

Driver managers? - I think mine has mostly done good by me. He's my main link to this company, so we're professional with each other. I do my best for him, and I think he does his best for me, though there have been a couple things that were left up to me to resolve.

Detention / layover pay? - I've gotten everything that is due to me, and the detention department is speedy quick, really. The only layover I've gotten is when a load of veggies was refused in PA (not CRE's fault, over ripe, or whatever...). Anyway, the refused load had to be moved to another buyer, and layover was paid to compensate me ($125 for sitting at their dock all day, waiting for them to arrive for night loading/unloading)

The "people, driver's, etc"?? - It's en eclectic mix of people that survive schooling, and the road. I haven't had a single issue with another driver, or anyone with them company. I think most everyone tries their very best, but some fall short. We all have a different experience, though, so I'm not saying anyone at the company is great, or terrible. I haven't had any terrible experiences with them, when it comes right down to it, but maybe others have.

Leasing from them??? - I'd say avoid it, but there are those that think more money per mile is actually more money in their pocket, when they've got a lot of costs of owning/leasing a vehicle to contend with, as well as out-of-necessity needing to drive team, or train. That' wasn't for me, and I made it clear from the start.

Pay - 0.35 cents/mile

I'm hoping I covered it well enough for those of you with questions to get some answers out of it. Like everything in life, the result of this experience will be exactly what you put into it. If you go, with good intent, study hard, and persist in learning what you don't know, you'll graduate, knowing how to drive a big rig, like me. Those who scoff are blowing wind up your you-know what... I can honestly say that since I just drove this entire winter, in all parts of the country, I've seen several dozen big rig wrecks (probably more), and not a single CRE truck involved. To me, that speaks volumes about their constant attention to safety. Say what you will about the puppy-mill type environment, but, they put decent drivers out onto the road, and they do it fairly quick.

I'll leave it there, for now. I credit this site for having the CDL testing online, since I went to CRE with fairly good scores here, then breezed through things there. It was a definite help, but there I was, getting ahead of the training CRE would offer. It helps, believe me, but it's not everything, either. You have to go, apply yourself, keep yourself clean, do the right things, drive safely, keep good records (elogs are great, as far as I'm concerned...), and stick to it. If you need home time, they have rules set up to ask/receive home time. Otherwise, if you just want to drive, finish your current load, do your empty call, and wait (a short time, usually) for a new load to come across the Qualcomm. It's not rocket science, but it's a huge responsibility to be moving 40 tons down the freeway 20 inches away from another guy moving 40 tons, with lots of 4-wheelers (like flies) buzzing about you all day long (I mostly drive nights, when the loading makes it possible!).

Is CRE as bad as everyone says? No, I don't really think so. I think there are a huge amount of people that may have gotten wrong information, made poor choices, left out pertinent information, or were just not desirable enough for CRE to make them better drivers than they were being... Yes, you can get fired in a moment's notice, if you've violated many of their doctrines, but that's what rules are for; to keep the herd in order.

Are they any worse than the other big outfits out there??? Not sure, but I suspect most of the larger outfits run the same game with miles, training pay, leases, etc. Probably are a few companies that do it different, but it's a big world out there. The one thing CRE can never take away from you is your CDL. You earned it! If they give you the boot, you'll probably still find work with some other company that has less stringent policies regarding accidents/tickets, but, there you go. You might even get paid more for less work, but the bottom line is that this information I've put forth here is accurate, recent, and from the inside. I am happy to be driving / happy to be working (was out for 2 years), happy to be crossing the country every day (almost), and I'm happy that I plowed through the negative stuff I heard, and went to the school and took the job. I've got income, albeit probably only $35,000-$40,000 this year, if I continue with them, and keep driving like there's no tomorrow for them....

I really hope this helps, coming from inside the hornet's nest (physically in the CRE SLC yard right now, on their free WiFi, telling you the story... I hope you can appreciate the irony of that, that they're providing the internet capability for me to write the story of my experiences.

Good luck out there - drive safe - never underestimate the stupidity of others - always watch the opposing traffic, as well as the traffic in front of you - watch behind, too, but remember, there's not much you can do about someone plowing into you, but you need to know who's back there, in case you need to maneuver quickly - pay attention to ALL signs, because there's lots of trucking-related signage along the way - Get Out And Look (GOAL) when backing.... Lots of cowboys out there think their hot stuff, and they'll swing in, and make you feel like an idiot for checking before backing - IGNORE THEM, and check! - last, but not least, enjoy the road! Lot's of beautiful country out there! Cities are congested, but good practice at not hitting anyone... :)

I'll make this quick, Stay away from CR England unless you plan on just getting your CDL and leaving to a better company that will reinburse your tuition and provide better training. Thats what I did, 17 days got my CDL and said see you later I bought my own bus pass and I'm out.

I'll make this quick, Stay away from CR England unless you plan on just getting your CDL and leaving to a better company that will reinburse your tuition and provide better training. Thats what I did, 17 days got my CDL and said see you later I bought my own bus pass and I'm out.

LOL, I should have done that too. Decided to go to a 30 days school in the local area instead.