Log Book Quiz

The tricky part here is when to start PC. As far as I know, it must be done only when you are really running out of time. So if I go off-duty at 1800, but there is still, let's say, an hour (of my 14) left, I cannot start PC. I tried it couple of times to create an early beginning of the next day, but was told by my company that it was wrong. Normally it happens to me while driving, not at a dock. I stop when I have 5-10 minutes left, put myself off-duty, immediately hit PC and drive until I park. Then I clear the PC and hit sleeper. The 10 hour break starts from that last off-duty moment. I have never been inspected so far, so cannot speak about it, but the person who checks my logs doesn't have any problems with them.

I use PC probably three to five days a week in Cheyenne. I'm usually going bobtail from the DC to the terminal , from the DC to the closest WM store for shopping, or returning from either to the DC. My 10 hour break is calculated from the time I complete my drop upon returning to the DC from over the road.

I notate my log as, " Drive from the DC to the terminal" before I begin. Once there, I again notate on my log notes, "Parked at the terminal", and I put myself back to an Off Duty status. Once I depart, I log these same notations in reverse order. I have never been required by the company to restart a 10 hour break if I utilize a PC move during these time periods.

Each company will have their own policies, and these may differ. A company can add stipulations, but cannot change an FMCSA ruling or policy without an exemption.

So technically he is advancing his load.

Not necessarily, if the "closest reasonable" place to park is in the opposite direction.

Totally agree with that Turtle. I actually started to mention that, but I wanted to get into that split sleeper berth idea. I was trying to keep from getting too deep into the weeds.

These discussions are fun and interesting, but I don't understand how a PC move could count against a 10 hour break. I understand how it could be abused, but it is off duty time so it shouldn't be counted against a ten hour break.

My understanding of it is that it should be used as PackRat mentions. It is designed to allow us to go to a store or a restaurant during our ten hour break. Then we can go back to our parking area and continue our break. There are certainly other uses also, but it cannot be considered as breaking up a ten hour break.

How are you guys on the WalMart account making use of it? Is it mostly a way to return to the DC at the end of your day?

The tricky part here is when to start PC. As far as I know, it must be done only when you are really running out of time. So if I go off-duty at 1800, but there is still, let's say, an hour (of my 14) left, I cannot start PC. I tried it couple of times to create an early beginning of the next day, but was told by my company that it was wrong. Normally it happens to me while driving, not at a dock. I stop when I have 5-10 minutes left, put myself off-duty, immediately hit PC and drive until I park. Then I clear the PC and hit sleeper. The 10 hour break starts from that last off-duty moment. I have never been inspected so far, so cannot speak about it, but the person who checks my logs doesn't have any problems with them.

Now if I'm not mistaken your method is a DOT violation. You cannot run until you run out if time THEN switch to PC and continue to a stopping place. That is called using PC to advance a load. Clear violation of the terms of personal conveyance. Most companies will eventually call you on it. Yours must not be looking very closely. The PC is for reaching the first safe place to stop when you run out of time at a customer and for shopping etc. If you do what you are doing you could run an extra hour each day by running an hour of PC. Look into this before you get popped by DOT.

I use it when going from the DC to the main terminal , which are opposite sides of Cheyenne. The terminal has laundry and better showers, and the DC has full kitchen facilities. The Walmart store I shop at almost exclusively is somewhere around midway between.

Sometimes I will park at the terminal to sleep, although there is an extremely active freight train route within one hundred yards, so that takes getting used to their noise. I then PC a return to the DC when the next load is ready. At that point, I am back to normal driving and duty HOS protocol.

How are you guys on the WalMart account making use of it? Is it mostly a way to return to the DC at the end of your day?

I never encounter a situation anymore where using PC wouldn't "enhance operational readiness", so I haven't used it on the private fleet side. There simply isn't a need for it, except maybe the rare occasion that a backhaul vendor says it'll be hours before I'm loaded, in which case WM will just take me off that backhaul to keep me rolling.

Normally it happens to me while driving, not at a dock. I stop when I have 5-10 minutes left, put myself off-duty, immediately hit PC and drive until I park. Then I clear the PC and hit sleeper.

That is definitely a clear violation. Driving past safe parking areas just to PC further down the road once you've ran out your clock is textbook red flag if DOT looks at it.

I’m glad to see that a mistake on my part has actually turned into a decent discussion highlighting potential mistakes others make.

I called Tim back last night and asked him specifically how and why they were able to enforce what they’re doing. He told me it was a combination of officers being picky, taking a bit of liberty in enforcement and a crucial driver error that I know I’ve made but will now be more aware of. I told him the scenario I posted here and he agreed it was an authorized and common use of PC. His next question was where I and many others totally screwed up. “So the driver left to go park, never closed the doors or performed any actions requiring an on duty status?” That’s where drivers have been getting hung up and again, I totally missed it and apologize to ask for that mistake. He did admit that in shorter PC moves in some cases, he’s shut a driver down for a 10, starting at the point where they went back off duty and avoided writing a log violation for not showing the on duty work related t time before leaving the facility.

Now if I'm not mistaken your method is a DOT violation. You cannot run until you run out if time THEN switch to PC and continue to a stopping place.

Here is a more detailed scenario. My delivery is on the next day, about 500 miles to drive. I arrive at a planned rest area with 30 minutes left on the clock. It is 2100 and there are no spots to park. The next closest rest area is 90 miles. There is also a truck stop in 20 miles, so I go there. It is 2120, the same thing, no spots. Now I have 10 minutes left. I start PC and drive for an hour to the next rest area, where I park. Is it a violation?

While my first response involved the PC use, which I mentioned would be proper use of PC, I also had an issue with the scenario to the extent that you log off duty the entire time you are in the dock. As Robert B points out, with the follow up, one aspect of the scenario is the incorrect off duty status.

Off-duty time is when the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work/blockquote>

IMO, sitting in a dock is one of those gray areas, because at any time you could be required to perform work. In these cases, I don't log the entire time off duty. I log some time on duty, so that I can tell LEO, "I did x, y, and z work. Then, after I was relieved from that work and all responsibility for performing work, I surfed the internet." The problem is the timing of your 10-hour break. If I log 15 minutes after I get in the dock, my 10-hour break starts earlier than if I log 15 minutes after they are done unloading. But at least I can say to LEO, "I did all work necessary relating to unloading during that 15 minutes after I got into the dock." He may disagree, but at least I've shown some on-duty time related to the actual unloading.

With regard to Andrey's scenario, I have arrived at a truck stop only to find no parking. But, on my way I saw a weigh station with parking. I went back to that weigh station on PC. The next morning, before my 10-hour break is up, I went back to the truck stop on PC. I used PC to find safe parking and then used PC to get back to where I was at the end of my on-duty driving status. So I didn't advance my load.

Now if I'm not mistaken your method is a DOT violation. You cannot run until you run out if time THEN switch to PC and continue to a stopping place.

Here is a more detailed scenario. My delivery is on the next day, about 500 miles to drive. I arrive at a planned rest area with 30 minutes left on the clock. It is 2100 and there are no spots to park. The next closest rest area is 90 miles. There is also a truck stop in 20 miles, so I go there. It is 2120, the same thing, no spots. Now I have 10 minutes left. I start PC and drive for an hour to the next rest area, where I park. Is it a violation?

I'm gonna say yes, it is still a violation. Especially if done often. Whats stopping someone from doing that 2 or 3 times a week, claiming there was no spots and continually racking up an extra 200-300 "free" miles per week? They will say you should know when spots are scarce and plan accordingly. Now if you made a spot and was told to leave it is entirely different but I'd get the name and occupation of the Person making me move.