Minimum Wage And Overtime. . . Lol!

Let me say....I enjoy these kind of conversations immensely! They are incredibly rich and thought-provoking. And I want to give a shout out to everyone here that participates in conversations like this where people can take different sides, have different opinions, but discuss it like adults in a respectful and honest way. That is a very rare thing on the Web, on television, or anywhere these days and the members here are what make this site so incredibly enjoyable for me. You guys and gals really handle yourself with tremendous integrity and I can't thank you enough for that.

And who, really, can make a valid point that covers all of the bases in such a short form conversation as a "blog" represents. I know I have often posted stuff (here and other places) and when I went back and read it I saw all of my own short comings in explaining myself. I saw, up above, one person saying how he didn't feel educated enough to really get into such a debate. I say hogwash. Some of us might be able to explain ourselves better than others but the GENIUS of the American (and we all share in that genius) is that each individual knows things by the HUNDREDS that others don't know. And that goes for every one of us. You want to see a real economics master? Look at the single mom who works, pays the rent, feeds & clothes her kids and falls into bed at night exhausted only to get up the next day and do it again.

I'll give you an example. When I was a junior in high school, my mother was divorced, my dad was not holding up his end of the responsibilities as a provider and my older sister had just graduated from high school. Talk about minimum wage, my sister went to work at Bob's Big Boy (next door to where we lived) for $1.01 an hour, plus tips. I was a bus boy at $1.42 an hour (the minimum wage at the time) at the same restaurant. They got away with the lower than minimum for my sister because they included meals. My mom was studying at night (I used to help her) to be a medical transcriber (she never finished high school) so she could get a job. I worked seven days a week while playing varsity water polo (we won the championship my senior year, yea!!) and paid all my own expenses. Both my sister and myself helped my mom pay the rent ($110 per month and hard to pay at that) and you never heard a word of complaint from any of us . . . that's what you did to survive. My mom ended up making a decent wage as a medical transcriber for years after that. My sister eventually went to college at age 35 and (raising 2 kids by herself while working full time as a waitress & tutor) graduated with a bachelor's degree and a very high GPA and went on to make some decent money.

This is the real genius of the American system. Do what it takes and don't look back. Until more people instead of less learn to participate, things will get worse before they get better. One bright note: those jobs that went overseas? They're headed back as the Chinese and others find themselves making higher wages and polluting their countries to the point of inhabitability. You can't trash your people and environment forever (they are finding out). You have to pay the piper. We Americans are becoming very competitive in world terms again. We just have to get everyone on board with the old work ethic that made us the most productive and generous people in the world. It's happening and people in this industry (truckers) are prime examples of that ethic.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Jopa

Chris L: "I used to make $3.35 a hour. Minimum wage 1983. "

Don't mean to nitpick but $3.35 in 1983 would be equivalent to making about $8.11 today so a bump up would not be totally unreasonable.

Jopa: " I was a bus boy at $1.42 an hour (the minimum wage at the time)"

You were actually making decent money. The last time the federal minimum wage was that low was 1968 which would be the equivalent of $9.53 today.

Don't get me wrong $15 is excessive but if it were up me i'd say set it to $9.00 with automatic adjustments based off of inflation.

I hope we never discover life on another planet. The U.S. government will immediately start sending them money.

Hey Weatherman,

Jopa: " I was a bus boy at $1.42 an hour (the minimum wage at the time)"

You were actually making decent money. The last time the federal minimum wage was that low was 1968 which would be the equivalent of $9.53 today.

I was a junior in high school in 1968 so you are right on. You did your homework. The point was I was a high school kid and I wasn't trying to raise a family . . . I knew it was high school kid work and I wasn't going to be doing it after I got out of high school. That's the whole point. You do what you have to do when you have to do it. Wanna have kids?? Get a kid raising wage for a kid raising situation - acquire the skill necessary or get two jobs. Don't expect the gov'ment to "mandate" a kid raising wage for high school jobs . . . I think that's the message from people who are perplexed by the entitlement minded public of todays world . . .

Jopa

******There needs to be a reform in the distribution of wealth. Don't ask me how - it's not a simple problem. It's gigantic. But it's unsustainable. I think 2008 was nothing more than a shot across the bow. What lies ahead will be another Great Depression if we don't change course.

*******

Brett, the ACA (Obama Care) is going to result in a huge redistribution of wealth. There are no easy answers for these economic problems, because often, what one person or group considers a problem, another group considers a solution.

I'vebbeen pondering this topic for a bit, and I've come to a realization. Somewhere in the last 30 or 40 years, we've moved from a capitalist society to a corporatist society. A good, functional capitalist society works toward the betterment of the economy as a whole, which incoudes ensuring a strong workforce and a middle class with a disposable income to be pumped back into the economy. A corporatist society is solely fixated on what's best for corporations, everyone and everything else be damned. What's worse, we have all the talking heads on the idiot box force feeding us the idea that it's good for us. That it's somehow noble to be forced to work two menial minimum wage jobs just to be able to keep a roof over your head and food on the table, because if corporations have to actually start employing people again and paying them a livable wage it will be like opening the 7th seal.

Somehow we have to get back to being a true capitalist society again. Don't ask me how. All I can see in my mind's eye are villagers with torches and pitchforks.

Somehow we have to get back to being a true capitalist society again. Don't ask me how.

The same way we got there the first time - unions.

From the start of the industrial revolution until the early 20th century the Carnegie's and the Rockefeller's and those types ran monstrous industrial complexes that had absolutely no concern for safety and no workers rights including minimum wage, a 40 hour work week, overtime, benefits, or anything of that nature whatsoever. You basically went into work, took what they gave you, did what they said to do, and hoped you went home alive to your family at the end of the day. Although those two men in particular went on to be known for their philanthropy, the reality was the working conditions and wages were abysmal. They would be considered criminal today. It wasn't until unions organized in the late 19th and early 20th century that the money barons were forced to give workers better conditions and pay.

Well the unions and the industrial complex were in pretty good balance from about WWII until the 70's or so and that was when our middle class was the strongest it has ever been, jobs were plentiful and paid well, and people could easily live off their wages. There was still very little need for any sort of welfare or financing for day to day lives other than buying cars and homes. But then global competition started eating away at our industries. So a lot of companies either went bankrupt, eliminated the unions, or took their factories to Mexico and overseas. To make up for the gap that was forming between wages and the cost of living we created gigantic vehicles of financing with credit cards, home loans, and even financing for everyday items like furniture - none of which was necessary to that point.

Fast forward to today and a lot of that financing has dried up with the meltdown of the financial and housing markets in 2008. Corporations are making mountains of cash again and they're hoarding it because the unions have lost their stronghold. Today, America's Fortune 500 have larger revenues, profit margins, and cash on hand than at any time in American history and yet you can't beg for a $10/hour blue collar job anymore.

The only way to bring back the balance is for someone to support the workers. You can do it with Government regulations but that would bring Socialism or Communism and those are proven to be failed systems. The only way we can get back the balance we had is either bring back the unions or hope rich guys start becoming more generous. Well as we all know, hope is not a strategy and rich guys in general aren't going to become generous.

One big hurdle we're going to have to overcome is the sense of entitlement a lot of people have now in our society because the Government has been giving away piles of money to make up for lost jobs and wages. So now a huge number of people have been getting money for doing nothing and it's very hard to go back to busting your butt when you've been handed so much for free for so long. But hey, they'll do it if given no other choice.

This is a process that's going to take decades to play out. At this point very few people are even talking about what we're going to do next because the Government seems to have pockets that never end. If the free Government money dries up and people have to start fending for themselves like they did during the Great Depression, everyone is going to turn a harsh eye to today's corporations and decide, "Ok, you're the ones with all the money. It's time we start getting our share again." That's when the Unions will make a come back.

It's going to be a long, painful process that's going to have a lot of twists and turns, a lot of setbacks and suffering. But all big changes happen that way.

The start of the decline has it's roots in the decision that a corporation can have a legal identity, ie. a "personhood" of it's own, independent from the directors. this stripped so much accountability from the people running the companies and gave them licence to do as they wished in the name of profits.

"Adam Smith said that the best result comes from everyone in the group doing what is best for himself, right? That's what he said. Incomplete. OK, because the best result would come from everyone in the group doing what is best for himself and the group."

- Russell Crowe playing John Forbes Nash Jr in "A Beautiful Mind"

Indeed capitalism does not work - can not work - if everyone only does what is best for themselves with no concern for the group. At some point almost all of the money and power will be consolidated in the hands of only a few people and we'll become a 3rd world country of a few kings and 300 million peasants.

The question becomes "Who is responsible for looking out for the group?" Probably one of the most difficult questions ever.

Junior in High School in 1968?

$1.42 per hour minimum wage?

What in the world are you guys talking about? I'm lost! Help! I'm far too young to be in this thread. What's going on here!

(Runs Away)