Trucking And Unionization...

^^This. If you want CEO money go be a CEO or roll the dice and start your own company.

I don't want to make current CEO money, and I don't want to be a CEO. I Just think that pay should be more fairly distributed. There are some people on here making a fairly good amount of money as a truck driver; it's part of why I'm interested in being one. I think people mistake my protest as jealousy, but it isn't. It's about what's "right". I actually respect some CEOs like Elon Musk and Bill Gates (well, ex-CEO)

A CEOs pay and pay structure is determined by a board and approved by shareholders. They get paid what the market dictates and what the board/shareholders believe their services are worth. It has nothing to do with what employees make and what employees make have nothing to do with what the CEO makes.

^^This. If you want CEO money go be a CEO or roll the dice and start your own company.

I don't want to make current CEO money, and I don't want to be a CEO. I Just think that pay should be more fairly distributed. There are some people on here making a fairly good amount of money as a truck driver; it's part of why I'm interested in being one. I think people mistake my protest as jealousy, but it isn't. It's about what's "right". I actually respect some CEOs like Elon Musk and Bill Gates (well, ex-CEO)

I for one don't see it as jealously. I would ask though, who are you to determine what is or is not "right" when it comes to someone else's pay?

Banks,

Why do you think that CEO pay and employee pay are totally separate? It is true that a large part of a CEO's pay is awarded through stocks and stock options, but it's still very much connected to the company's performance. (As well as what the market determines, as you put it.) Regular employees could be awarded stock and stock options as well. They just generally aren't. It makes sense that a CEO would be paid with stock and stock options for two reasons. One, it's a tax loophole. Long term gains are taxed at a lower rate. The other is that it rewards a CEO for performing better in the market. CEO pay, as well as regular employee pay, both go against the bottom line: Profits.

It's dishonest to say they're independent of one another.

Why does a part time dock worker make less than a full time dock worker on a p/h basis? Why does a terminal manager make more than an operations manager and why does an operations manager make more than an operations supervisor? Because there are levels to a pay structure. Each job pays more, but requires more commitment and responsibility.

As for stock options, sure it could be a loop hole or it could be too make a CEOs salary tied in to the company's overall performance. The CEO makes more as the shareholders make more.

I for one don't see it as jealously. I would ask though, who are you to determine what is or is not "right" when it comes to someone else's pay?

Why should hard working people struggle to make ends meet, and get subsidies for their food and medical insurance from other hard working tax payers, while the CEO of the company, and a handful executives, make unfathomable amounts of money? I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid more money than the regular workers, but it has gone to absurd levels. It's not good for our society, it's not ethical, and I'll gladly vote for people like Bernie Sanders until something is done about it.

That's who I am.

And I'm happy for the people around here making 6 figures as a truck driver. It means the American dream hasn't died for them.

I for one don't see it as jealously. I would ask though, who are you to determine what is or is not "right" when it comes to someone else's pay?

Why should hard working people struggle to make ends meet, and get subsidies for their food and medical insurance from other hard working tax payers, while the CEO of the company, and a handful executives, make unfathomable amounts of money? I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid more money than the regular workers, but it has gone to absurd levels. It's not good for our society, it's not ethical, and I'll gladly vote for people like Bernie Sanders until something is done about it.

That's who I am.

And I'm happy for the people around here making 6 figures as a truck driver. It means the American dream hasn't died for them.

Why not work somewhere else then? Plenty of jobs out here in all sectors. Some jobs pay low wages, and some work places suck. Nobody is holding employees at gunpoint, "Work here or Die!" How about we take control of our own destiny instead of the "spread the wealth" argument crap? BS just like "Hope and Change" was. Everyone that wants this is probably some loser that can't make it on his own because he doesn't want to put in the effort needed to be a success. Doesn't matter to me, because this country needs losers, too. I prefer to be a member of the other team.

Any idea what the President or COO of Crete/Shaffer makes each year? I have no idea and I really don't care if it's $1K or $100M.

Here’s my thoughts - Why is it the Robin Hood/Share the Wealth types never have what it takes to be successful? If you really believe that your ideas are “right” and best for everyone, why don’t you become successful and then practice what you’re preaching? Start a company and drive it to the levels of success it takes to be an overpaid CEO - I bet you can’t because you’re too busy expecting someone else to improve your lot in life. And I’ll back that bet up with another one - prove me wrong and become that successful, and I bet you forget about being Robin Hood and redistributing your wealth, and end up living the high life like every other successful CEO who busted his ass to get there.

Gregg

Chris, I don't disagree with you, but don't start making it personal. This is a great conversation. Let's stick to facts and opinions but not personal attacks.

I'll tell you one thing I'd love to see more of, and that is data to back the non-union argument. It's easy to come up with data for the pro-union argument, which I've done on a small scale already. I'm happy to dig up more.

We know that worker wages have gone flat for decades while upper management wages have soared. We know jobs have gone overseas in huge numbers. We know technology has made producing almost any sort of product more efficient, which has led to hyper-growth for corporate profits and (again) upper management wages, but without the hyper-growth in worker compensation.

It's easy to find data that shows the skyrocketing levels of debt required by the middle class to maintain our standard of living over the years because wages have not kept up with inflation. It's also common knowledge that the gap between the upper 1% and the remaining 99% has grown greater over the years, and is now at or near an all-time high for the United States.

All of that is easy to find. The information is well known and understood, and it all points to the fact that as the unions dissolved, so did the finances of the middle and lower classes.

I honestly can not think of a single data point that shows that the elimination of unions helped poor and middle-class workers, and helped boost our standard of living for the lower and middle classes. Honestly, I don't think I've looked for any. Maybe I will!

I know we have many people here who dislike unions, and I have no problem with that side of the debate, but I can't get on board with no data pointing toward that being true. The opinion has to be backed by some sort of data.

For what it's worth, I do agree that unionizing trucking would be virtually impossible at this point. The industry is indeed too fragmented, as others have pointed out. So I don't want anyone to think I'm pushing to unionize trucking or unionize anything. I just enjoy these types of conversations and I'm hoping to learn even more.

I don’t have data, but what I can share is a real world example. Schneider uses one tank wash company for 99% of it’s tanker cleanings. This company has two sites within a mile-and-a-half of each other in Freeport, TX. One site is controlled by a union. The other site is not. Which site does Schneider use to clean its trailers? The non-union site. The union facility is predominantly used to stage loaded trailers. it’s a pretty clear illustration of the stereotype that unions have earned today: workers are less motivated, less incentivized to do a good job, and are generally performing below par compared to their non-union counterparts.

Truck drivers in particular are too diverse to make any semblance of a union work. For all the complaining drivers do about low pay, federal regulations, and invasive technology, when was the last time anyone can remember a protest that was organized by truckers that had even a modicum of success? I don’t see this workforce ever coming together to form a successful union. And I don’t see a reason to, either. Truck driving is my job. I’ve embraced this lifestyle, I’ve figured out how to succeed, and I do very well; I certainly don’t need a third-party organization to represent me or hold my hand.

This position has no merit. The CEOs pay has absolutely zero effect on your pay. It will not solve anything, nor create problems. It's a complete myth. In trucking, where we get paid predominantly by piecework, the only person who determines your value is yourself.

You clearly have not read anything about income inequality. You also don't seem to understand how a company works, and where the money comes from. I'm not sure where the error in your thinking resides. Where do you think the CEO's compensation comes from? Part of it is from the stock market doing better, but employees could be compensated with stock too. As a truck driver, you are not just making money for yourself. You're making money for your company, and others above you get to decide how much you are compensated. I hate to burst your delusional bubble.

Having owned and ran companies for 30 years, I actually do Know how they work, very well actually. Income inequality, while being one of liberals oft chosen issues, doesn't effect practical day to day life of most people. Unless a CEO is paid so substantially, that it takes from revenue, in turn causing a company to reduce wages to compensate. Although possible, it's extremely rare. The most likely place would be to raise the price of goods and services rendered.

Of course when we do better, the company does better, that's the model of peicework compensation. The CEOs pay doesn't effect your pay. Your efficiency and productivity determines your pay. Have you ever hired peicework crews? The labor market, their productivity and quality of work determines their pay far more than the owner or CEO. Trust me on that, my last business had outflow of 40k monthly to our peicework crews. They are fairly ruthless, they will go to wherever has the most work for the highest dollar amount. That amount is the average paid for a job. As the business owner, I would have loved to lower my labor burden costs, but couldn't.

Lowering a CEOs pay will not raise your pay. Especially if it's a CEO of a company that you don't work at. I could care less what the CEO of an oil company is making. in the first place his compensation is relative to the companies revenue and profit, in the second place, it's not likely to be a factor in the amount I pay for their products. And finally, the concept of income inequality is like being offended. What happens when you are offended? Absolutely nothing. You're just offended. It's an emotional issue with little or no real world consequences. If you want to make significant changes in the world, start with your own area that you have control of.