PC Under Load.

Ryan says.

Basically, if there is a rest area that is 5 miles behind me that requires that I get to the other side of the interstate , with a total distance driven of 10 miles, and another parking spot that is 8 miles up the road in front of me, I am going 8 miles up the road. Is that what the FMCSA regulation says I am to do?

Actually that is exactly what the FMCA guidance says if you would have read it.

8 miles is closer than 10 miles.

Also if you follow the link there is guidance that says you don't have to return to the prior on duty location. Meaning that if you PC to find safe parking you don't have to return to your prior location. That's always been a discussion about if you have to turn around and go back to your prior on duty location.

My recommendation to anyone reading this: if you don't understand PC don't use it.

Also if you don't understand PC or if you can't read what the FMCA is says don't try to tell others how to use it.

My point was that some people calculate distance as the crow flies, as opposed to the actual distance traveled to get to a location. The difference between calculating hub miles and practical miles. My example wasn't referring to returning to prior on duty point. I was referring to the distance comparison of two potential parking locations. PC requires traveling to the closest location that is safe and legal, no matter which direction of travel it may require.

I have to admit that I’m very much a rebel without a pause about PC regulations. Two days in a row I have tried to find parking and found the truck stop and rest area where I planned to park full to overflowing. Rather than park on entry ramps, I put myself on PC and went off route to nearby little towns where I found safe and cozy parking. In doing so, did I advance my load? Yes I did by a few miles. Am I worried? Heck no. I know my company will not bust my chops about technicalities. I try to abide by the rules, but there are times when we have to just use common sense and do what is safe and prudent, FMSCA be damned.

That's not advancing the load. You tried to park and went to the nearest safe and legal place to park because along entrance/exit ramps isn't safe and in some states it is expressly illegal with signage. If the closest place to park happens to be in the direction of where you are delivering, FMCSA regulation on PC specifically states that this does not mean that a driver is advancing the load. All that matters is that you travel from where you are, whether it be customer location or a location where you tried to park, to the next closest safe and legal place to park. If you arrive at the next location and parking is not available, you then PC to the closest location for parking from there. This is where having numerous tools available helps, as well as familiarity with what locations are likely to have parking at the time you are trying to park. Also, if multiple locations are all within roughly the same distance, it's smart to try going where there are several parking locations in close proximity. Myself, I look for the truck stops and diners that are not one of the big chains because the big chains usually fill up quickly. I have never tried stopping at a small truck stop, diner, or convenience store with truck parking available and said parking lot is full.

An example of advancing the load would be pulling into a truck stop, fueling, going off duty, then going PC to drive further toward your destination when the location where you stopped had parking available. Or, parking at a location 15 miles from your delivery (or any distance, for that matter) and using PC to take the load to the delivery location. Both of those are falsifying logs because you are performing functions for the purpose of delivering that load but doing so in an off duty status. It is illegal to use PC to extend your 14 hour clock.

Another interesting topic. I swear a learn more about trucking here than anywhere.

I understand PC, to a degree. I don't use it unless I'm certain I can. I will PC from my weekend parking spot to the house if I have to do it. Our company policy is no more than 20 miles of PC. My house is 5.5 miles away from thee. We can't advance the load, regardless of what the reg says.

The only appointment I've missed in my short six months of regional solo driving was when I knew I would run out of time when I made it to the consignee and would have to PC at least 18 miles out of there because there wasn't any overnight parking at the facility. This was only because I spent six hours on the docks at the shipper. Now, I could have made it there with about 10 minutes on my clock, then tried to pc out that night, then back in the morning. But it's a lengthy check-in process. I may have had to PC into the dock. Negatory...not going to do it. So, I shut down about 30 minutes shy of the facility. I wasn't happy about not making the same-day delivery. And I'm sure no one else was either.

I don't like to operate in gray areas. This old new rookie is sticking with the knowns and the basics until he has more experience! LOL

I delt with this last week. I had two stops, one in Severn, MD and the next in Greencastle, PA. I realized that I was going to run over my clock by 20-30 minutes to get the load there. I drove the load on in and took the violation hit. It would be more costly for me to stop and have the delivery rescheduled because of lost miles than the cost of a potential ticket for this violation.

Do what you feel comfortable doing. I would never use PC on customer property, unless you are leaving to go park off-site. That's a falsifying logs issue. If anything, I would creep along at under 5 mph to get into the dock.

Ryan; can you use 'Yard Move' on customer property? If it's private, and dedicated, perhaps.

Besides the obvious: FMCSA rules .. ambiguous at times..

The 16 hour exemption causes confusion, as well; especially for us 'mostly' intrastate drivers, aka: home daily/local.

If you usually come back to your work-reporting location and go home at the end of your workday, you might be able to use the 16-hour short-haul exception. This exception allows you to extend the 14-consecutive-hour driving window to 16 hours once every 7 consecutive days. Note, you only have to arrive/depart for FIVE consecutive days to your yard, to qualify; however.

Just adding MORE confusion; didn't mean to!

~ Anne ~

The 16 hour exemption causes confusion, as well; especially for us 'mostly' intrastate drivers, aka: home daily/local.

If you usually come back to your work-reporting location and go home at the end of your workday, you might be able to use the 16-hour short-haul exception. This exception allows you to extend the 14-consecutive-hour driving window to 16 hours once every 7 consecutive days. Note, you only have to arrive/depart for FIVE consecutive days to your yard, to qualify; however.

~ Anne ~

Actually, a 34 will reset it without needing the seven days. It doesn’t extend your drive time, you still only have 11 hours there. And weirdly enough, taking it legally in the states, then for example crossing the border a few days later and running under Canadian rules of service, will give the Canadian dot fits. The company has had to have two hos violations I got because of this data-q’d off. They really don’t like seeing even a legal 16 (in the states) in your log history up there.

I would never use PC on customer property, unless you are leaving to go park off-site. That's a falsifying logs issue. If anything, I would creep along at under 5 mph to get into the dock.

Just playing devil’s advocate here (doesn’t matter to me, I’ve done pc, ym, and the creep), but isn’t doing the creep also technically falsifying your logs?

I would never use PC on customer property, unless you are leaving to go park off-site. That's a falsifying logs issue. If anything, I would creep along at under 5 mph to get into the dock.

Just playing devil’s advocate here (doesn’t matter to me, I’ve done pc, ym, and the creep), but isn’t doing the creep also technically falsifying your logs?

Never thought about that issue of falsifying the logs. I’d hate to lie to the government in any way, shape or form. They never lie to us.

Thanks for all of the input guys. The shipper was really fast. I ended up doing a split sleeper and was able to drive 100 miles. If I would have done pc, I would have only been able to drive 25 miles per company policy, and would be fighting for parking in Boise at 1800.

You would have been fine finding a place. Mr Gas off exit 59A usually has spots even after midnight. Always have found a spot after delivering at WinCo DC at 0100.

Or, go past the WinCo DC, turn right at the dead end, go to round circle end of road, come back along fence beside WinCo and park. There is usually some spots.

Should have hollered.... I would have bought you coffee and given you a shortcut to 93. I live in Buhl, 1 mile from the shortcut, bypassing the stupid traffic in Twin Falls. 😆

Laura

IDMtnGal, I would loved to have shared a coffee with you. The Mr Gas look like a nice place, an it's brand new. But, due to my company's daily limit of 25 miles pc per day, that would have been too far. The TA was around 23 miles from shipper. There were a couple of Jackson's Foods a few miles away. But they are mostly paid, and small, and would probably be full by 17:30, the time I left shipper. Fortunately, I was able to use split sleep and make it to the rest area 100 miles east in Bliss. I made it there at about 19:00 with many spots still available.

Lol, when I saw that my dispatch would take me through Twin Fall, the first thing that crossed my mind was the traffic, and catching every traffic light red. There is a reason we refer to them as red lights, and not traffic lights. However, I passed through town around 0600 on Saturday morning, and traffic wasn't an issue. I didn't realize there was a shortcut. Looking at a map, I assume it's hwy. 30. I see that runs right through Buhl. I could take that route next time, and give you a holler.

Just playing devil’s advocate here (doesn’t matter to me, I’ve done pc, ym, and the creep), but isn’t doing the creep also technically falsifying your logs?

Actually, yes it is. If one is doing the creep, it's being done because of being out of time on the 11, 14 or 70 or on the 10 and need to move....the time I used the creep for delivering cheese in Greensboro NC. I would arrive in Greensboro, park near the receiver, hit the bunk and when they were ready, the dock guy would wake me. I'd creep in, dock, get unloaded, creep out and hit the bunk to finish my 10 hr SB time. Haven't had to use "creep time" with this new company.

Laura

The 16 hour exemption causes confusion, as well; especially for us 'mostly' intrastate drivers, aka: home daily/local.

If you usually come back to your work-reporting location and go home at the end of your workday, you might be able to use the 16-hour short-haul exception. This exception allows you to extend the 14-consecutive-hour driving window to 16 hours once every 7 consecutive days. Note, you only have to arrive/depart for FIVE consecutive days to your yard, to qualify; however.

~ Anne ~

Actually, a 34 will reset it without needing the seven days. It doesn’t extend your drive time, you still only have 11 hours there. And weirdly enough, taking it legally in the states, then for example crossing the border a few days later and running under Canadian rules of service, will give the Canadian dot fits. The company has had to have two hos violations I got because of this data-q’d off. They really don’t like seeing even a legal 16 (in the states) in your log history up there.

Wow, sorry!

Did they 'forgive' you? Empirically, you'd do quite a bit of cross border, location wise. Yes?

The thing w/FAB though . . . oftentimes Tom would bring the T/T home.. therefore not fulfilling the '5 days same location' obligation. He'd run his 14 for the need to stop & stay home, then pull a 16 a few days later...not meeting that rule. Got me? (Me, neither.)

Indeed, many 34's (weekends at home) DID flash that card back to good, true. Never kept the rig on a weekend.

I'm not sure that we (he) was legal, but the logs & safety folks knew what we (he) had to do, to 'sorda' be legal. There's too much gray area for even the bosses .. to advise us.

Adding one thing; never under a load, stopping at the house, an hour closer than the yard. Always empty.

Carry on, sorry!! {Return to your 'original programming/topic!'}

~ Anne ~

ps: Guess this will be non sequitur shortly, anyway!!

pps: When I get 'worried'.. I don't rub stones; I confuse everyone (esp. me!) with big words.

Ryan; can you use 'Yard Move' on customer property? If it's private, and dedicated, perhaps.

Besides the obvious: FMCSA rules .. ambiguous at times..

The 16 hour exemption causes confusion, as well; especially for us 'mostly' intrastate drivers, aka: home daily/local.

If you usually come back to your work-reporting location and go home at the end of your workday, you might be able to use the 16-hour short-haul exception. This exception allows you to extend the 14-consecutive-hour driving window to 16 hours once every 7 consecutive days. Note, you only have to arrive/depart for FIVE consecutive days to your yard, to qualify; however.

Just adding MORE confusion; didn't mean to!

~ Anne ~

Yes, on-duty yard move can be used on any property, whether one's own company or a customer.

Being regional/OTR, I don't know about the 16-hour exception. Never applied to me.

I would never use PC on customer property, unless you are leaving to go park off-site. That's a falsifying logs issue. If anything, I would creep along at under 5 mph to get into the dock.

Just playing devil’s advocate here (doesn’t matter to me, I’ve done pc, ym, and the creep), but isn’t doing the creep also technically falsifying your logs?

Yes it is, but the logs don't snitch on you with it. However, using PC at an unlawful time or place, the logs will snitch on you. The purpose of the creep is to go a short distance that is not on a public roadway without engaging the drive line. Ex: From staging area waiting on a dock door to the assigned dock door. There is no lawful purpose or use of the creep. But, again, the logs won't reflect it having been used.

The purpose of PC is to drive a variable distance on a public roadway to get to a location for an off-duty purpose, namely going to a location to park, going to a store/restaurant, or going home.