PC Under Load.

Ryan wrote:

Yes, on-duty yard move can be used on any property, whether one's own company or a customer.

Perhaps. But FMCSA has yet to clearly define what a yard is.

Here is what we know: Yard Move Guidance

I think the FAQ on PC found in the FMCSA website is unambiguous and very informative:

FAQ - PC

I would never use PC on customer property, unless you are leaving to go park off-site. That's a falsifying logs issue. If anything, I would creep along at under 5 mph to get into the dock.

Just playing devil’s advocate here (doesn’t matter to me, I’ve done pc, ym, and the creep), but isn’t doing the creep also technically falsifying your logs?

Never thought about that issue of falsifying the logs. I’d hate to lie to the government in any way, shape or form. They never lie to us.

The only reason to be concerned about it is that it's a matter of protecting your license.

Using Yard Move on a customer's property is frowned on by many of the large carriers. There is enough ambiguity in the FMCSA's guidance that it gives them reason to ask their drivers to use Yard Moves only on properties that are designated as belonging to the company. We can use Yard Moves at terminals and drop yards. We are not supposed to use them at truck stops or customer's properties. This is strictly a company policy. Company policy always trumps the FMCSA's guidelines when you are a driver.

Ryan wrote:

Yes, on-duty yard move can be used on any property, whether one's own company or a customer.

Perhaps. But FMCSA has yet to clearly define what a yard is.

Here is what we know: Yard Move Guidance

I think the FAQ on PC found in the FMCSA website is unambiguous and very informative:

FAQ - PC

For all you youngins that don't know the history of "yard moves"...

It was an old rule that was obsolete and not used. When the FMCSA went to ELD's they failed to realize that when you run out of time in a customer's dock there was nothing you can do except sit there for 8 to 10 hours. Nothing. Anything you did would put you in violation because, at the time, you could only use PC time if you weren't ladened with a trailer along with a whole bunch of stipulations.

Well, trucking companies refused to move from docks, the police were called, there wasn't anything anyone could do.

So in a panic, the FMCSA dug up the old "yard moves" rule in order to be able to get the trucks out of the docks, but what they didn't realize is that yard moves put you on duty. So there was really no point in using it because you'd be waiting hours to get unloaded, then use yard moves to go a few miles, then have to immediately take another 10 hour break to reset the clocks you just turned on.

After much grief, the FMCSA finally relented and decided to make the PC rules more laxed so we could use them to get out of docks and to a safe haven. What's the point?

Nobody uses yard moves that i know of. Drivers should not be ashamed to used PC if you're doing what you should be doing. It was given to us to use.

Using Yard Move on a customer's property is frowned on by many of the large carriers. There is enough ambiguity in the FMCSA's guidance that it gives them reason to ask their drivers to use Yard Moves only on properties that are designated as belonging to the company. We can use Yard Moves at terminals and drop yards. We are not supposed to use them at truck stops or customer's properties. This is strictly a company policy. Company policy always trumps the FMCSA's guidelines when you are a driver.

Certainly, since said company holds the power of either retaining or terminating said driver.

Could it be that FMCSA has been intentionally ambiguous on this issue for the purpose of basically letting company policy be the regulator?

Ok, that's probably not a fair question because it requires you to speculate where there is not sufficient information on the matter.

For all you youngins that don't know the history of "yard moves"...

It was an old rule that was obsolete and not used. When the FMCSA went to ELD's they failed to realize that when you run out of time in a customer's dock there was nothing you can do except sit there for 8 to 10 hours. Nothing. Anything you did would put you in violation because, at the time, you could only use PC time if you weren't ladened with a trailer along with a whole bunch of stipulations.

Well, trucking companies refused to move from docks, the police were called, there wasn't anything anyone could do.

So in a panic, the FMCSA dug up the old "yard moves" rule in order to be able to get the trucks out of the docks, but what they didn't realize is that yard moves put you on duty. So there was really no point in using it because you'd be waiting hours to get unloaded, then use yard moves to go a few miles, then have to immediately take another 10 hour break to reset the clocks you just turned on.

After much grief, the FMCSA finally relented and decided to make the PC rules more laxed so we could use them to get out of docks and to a safe haven. What's the point?

Nobody uses yard moves that i know of. Drivers should not be ashamed to used PC if you're doing what you should be doing. It was given to us to use.

Sid, that is very interesting info. Thanks for posting that.

One of the most anal retentive companies in the industry is Schneider. They permit and use Yard Moves. The company I now drive for doesn’t have a provision for yard moves. Instead, we go on PC for the same thing. I think this issue might fall into the category of “much ado about nothing”. Really, what is going to happen ? Will I get fired for violating this stupid rule? Answer: NO. Will I get sent to prison so far back that they have to pump sunlight in and feed me with a slingshot? Answer: NO.

My thought is that if the people that make up the so called government in Washington were held to the same strict standards as truck drivers are, they would all be in jail.

For all you youngins that don't know the history of "yard moves"...

It was an old rule that was obsolete and not used. When the FMCSA went to ELD's they failed to realize that when you run out of time in a customer's dock there was nothing you can do except sit there for 8 to 10 hours. Nothing. Anything you did would put you in violation because, at the time, you could only use PC time if you weren't ladened with a trailer along with a whole bunch of stipulations.

Well, trucking companies refused to move from docks, the police were called, there wasn't anything anyone could do.

So in a panic, the FMCSA dug up the old "yard moves" rule in order to be able to get the trucks out of the docks, but what they didn't realize is that yard moves put you on duty. So there was really no point in using it because you'd be waiting hours to get unloaded, then use yard moves to go a few miles, then have to immediately take another 10 hour break to reset the clocks you just turned on.

After much grief, the FMCSA finally relented and decided to make the PC rules more laxed so we could use them to get out of docks and to a safe haven. What's the point?

Nobody uses yard moves that i know of. Drivers should not be ashamed to used PC if you're doing what you should be doing. It was given to us to use.

I wouldn't say that no one uses yard move. There are drivers here who have commented in threads talking about using it.

Thank you for the insight on how it all evolved.

I think the hesitation or shame of using PC comes in when drivers are afraid to end up in a violation for using it.

I use yard move on a regular basis. I use it simply to save those couple of minutes drive time.

As far as companies frowning upon it, when I had my high mileage audit and asked my logs advisor if there was any issue with my logs, she said she would like to see more yard move time.

For all you youngins that don't know the history of "yard moves"...

It was an old rule that was obsolete and not used. When the FMCSA went to ELD's they failed to realize that when you run out of time in a customer's dock there was nothing you can do except sit there for 8 to 10 hours. Nothing. Anything you did would put you in violation because, at the time, you could only use PC time if you weren't ladened with a trailer along with a whole bunch of stipulations.

Well, trucking companies refused to move from docks, the police were called, there wasn't anything anyone could do.

So in a panic, the FMCSA dug up the old "yard moves" rule in order to be able to get the trucks out of the docks, but what they didn't realize is that yard moves put you on duty. So there was really no point in using it because you'd be waiting hours to get unloaded, then use yard moves to go a few miles, then have to immediately take another 10 hour break to reset the clocks you just turned on.

After much grief, the FMCSA finally relented and decided to make the PC rules more laxed so we could use them to get out of docks and to a safe haven. What's the point?

Nobody uses yard moves that i know of. Drivers should not be ashamed to used PC if you're doing what you should be doing. It was given to us to use.

Sid, that is very interesting info. Thanks for posting that.

One of the most anal retentive companies in the industry is Schneider. They permit and use Yard Moves. The company I now drive for doesn’t have a provision for yard moves. Instead, we go on PC for the same thing. I think this issue might fall into the category of “much ado about nothing”. Really, what is going to happen ? Will I get fired for violating this stupid rule? Answer: NO. Will I get sent to prison so far back that they have to pump sunlight in and feed me with a slingshot? Answer: NO.

My thought is that if the people that make up the so called government in Washington were held to the same strict standards as truck drivers are, they would all be in jail.

It can affect bonuses, which can cut into your earning potential. Whenever st a point where a regulation or company policy might be violated, it's important to make sure that the violation has a direct and calculable benefit. Otherwise, why not follow the regulation or policy?

Ex: Last week I had a two-stop load. I was short 25-30 minutes of drive time to get to the second stop. Legally, I would have been required to park somewhere and then wait until I recover sufficient hours to get the load to the destination. This would have potentially cost the company money in having to reschedule the delivery, as well as costing me money because my I am cutting into my next shift with this delivery. I made a calculated decision to deliver the load on time and take the hit on HOS violation. I was in contact with dispatch to inform them that this was my plan.