PC Under Load.

Nobody uses yard moves that i know of.

As Ryan stated there's several people that have stated they use it regularly. I log yard move several times a day. In our gated DC i Log in to truck, YARD MOVE to where my trailers located. Hook up, pretrip YARD MOVE to fuel island to fuel reefer , YARD MOVE to wash bay to have a pretty truck before I leave, maybe even office if I need additional paperwork. Upon return to the DC I may log yard move as soon as I badge in our gate if my 11 or 14 are within 10 minutes. I'll park my trailer, post trip, then YARD MOVE to the trucks assigned spot. That right there is 4 yard moves on an average day. Sure, drivers that run out of the terminal use it more than an OTR driver does. In a post a couple days ago Banks mentioned a day his plans kept getting changed. He logged 10:56 on the drive line and needed another driver to come pick him up. If he didn't log yard move while hooking up or looking for trailers he would've been even farther away. Just because your situation doesn't provide a big advantage by logging yard move doesn't mean it doesn't for others.

I made a calculated decision to deliver the load on time and take the hit on HOS violation. I was in contact with dispatch to inform them that this was my plan.

It's your CDL do as you see fit. Personally, I'm not violating for anyone. If I did my best to get it there on time and communicated any delays I did my job. If a wreck shut the roadway down, or they scheduled it to deliver without enough time that isn't my problem. Do you think dispatch would have your back if you're involved in a wreck? Doubtful. For those new to this industry please do not think it's acceptable to willingly violate HOS. If you're pulled in for an inspection within 8 days of violating you risk an expensive ticket. Your ticket will be hundreds if not thousands of dollars based on the state. If you're carrying hazmat it could be over $75,000 according to a quick Google search. Have enough violations it'll affect if you stay employed at your current company or can land another job at all. If you're involved in any sort of accident while violating you're risking a lawsuit against yourself and your company and possibly even jail time depending in the severity.

Still think its worth it? You do you, but my livelihood is much more important to me than a large corporation losing a few dollars due to missed appointment time, or the few dollars more I'd make the following day if I'd make it there by violating. Your company isn't going to lose a customer over a single missed appointment. Even if they do, if I do the best I can getting it there on time and communicate any issues I really don't care......

Rob, do you think it's really that necessary to do what you're doing? Is it really necessary to log yard moves for less than a 2 min coast? Is it really necessary to keep bouncing between duty statues? What are you accomplishing? Are you trying to make a zig zag pattern on your logs that nobody cares about? I would almost bet my next settlement that you drive off the property and forget you're in yard moves more times than you would admit if your actually doing what you say you do.

Yard moves are on duty so it would not affect your drive clock unless you're over the 14. I didn't read banks' post but he would have been over on his drive time whether or not he used a bunch of yard moves.

When people start going overboard on hours of service they tend to forget what they were made for. It is to make sure the driver has had enough rest to drive. I mean, do whatever you feel like you should be doing. If you want to save a few min's on the 14 hour clock than go for it. By all means.

Ryan, i can't believe your company would agree for you to drive over your hours to make a delivery. I hope you don't get inspected in the next seven days. It is in my experience that the trips are run day in and day out. If you're running out of time doing them then you may be doing something wrong and i would ask other drivers how they do that load. I've had loads with multiple stops that you had to take a 2 hour break during the first unload to do a split break so you had extra time coming back and that was how the trip was meant to be run.

Nobody uses yard moves that i know of.

As Ryan stated there's several people that have stated they use it regularly. I log yard move several times a day. In our gated DC i Log in to truck, YARD MOVE to where my trailers located. Hook up, pretrip YARD MOVE to fuel island to fuel reefer , YARD MOVE to wash bay to have a pretty truck before I leave, maybe even office if I need additional paperwork. Upon return to the DC I may log yard move as soon as I badge in our gate if my 11 or 14 are within 10 minutes. I'll park my trailer, post trip, then YARD MOVE to the trucks assigned spot. That right there is 4 yard moves on an average day. Sure, drivers that run out of the terminal use it more than an OTR driver does. In a post a couple days ago Banks mentioned a day his plans kept getting changed. He logged 10:56 on the drive line and needed another driver to come pick him up. If he didn't log yard move while hooking up or looking for trailers he would've been even farther away. Just because your situation doesn't provide a big advantage by logging yard move doesn't mean it doesn't for others.

I made a calculated decision to deliver the load on time and take the hit on HOS violation. I was in contact with dispatch to inform them that this was my plan.

It's your CDL do as you see fit. Personally, I'm not violating for anyone. If I did my best to get it there on time and communicated any delays I did my job. If a wreck shut the roadway down, or they scheduled it to deliver without enough time that isn't my problem. Do you think dispatch would have your back if you're involved in a wreck? Doubtful. For those new to this industry please do not think it's acceptable to willingly violate HOS. If you're pulled in for an inspection within 8 days of violating you risk an expensive ticket. Your ticket will be hundreds if not thousands of dollars based on the state. If you're carrying hazmat it could be over $75,000 according to a quick Google search. Have enough violations it'll affect if you stay employed at your current company or can land another job at all. If you're involved in any sort of accident while violating you're risking a lawsuit against yourself and your company and possibly even jail time depending in the severity.

Still think its worth it? You do you, but my livelihood is much more important to me than a large corporation losing a few dollars due to missed appointment time, or the few dollars more I'd make the following day if I'd make it there by violating. Your company isn't going to lose a customer over a single missed appointment. Even if they do, if I do the best I can getting it there on time and communicate any issues I really don't care......

When I was on the Walmart Dedicated account I used yard move anytime I moved the truck while at the DC.

Similar to Rob’s explanation… quite necessary when hitting the security gate on the return leg with less than 5 min. remaining on the 14 hour on-duty clock.

Dropping the trailer, either empty or loaded, plus a quick post trip of the trailer, and then parking the tractor for the night plus post trip on the tractor, typically required 10-15 minutes to complete. And “yes”, by design I ran that tight on my hours.

Rob, do you think it's really that necessary to do what you're doing? Is it really necessary to log yard moves for less than a 2 min coast? Is it really necessary to keep bouncing between duty statues? What are you accomplishing? Are you trying to make a zig zag pattern on your logs that nobody cares about? I would almost bet my next settlement that you drive off the property and forget you're in yard moves more times than you would admit if your actually doing what you say you do

Some days, yes it absolutely is necessary. As a driver that makes it home daily if I have a day that has alot of miles on it I may run out of my 11 before my 14. In the morning I can easily shave off 10 minutes that would otherwise be driving due to the size of our DC. That may be the difference between me making it home that night or needing a hotel. If I can prevent my 11 from starting until i actually leave why wouldn't I? It also doesn't start my clock ticking until I leave the yard for my 8 hour clock before I need my 30. Even if I have a 400 mile day I still log YM this way. Why not, it's legally allowed and there may be a wreck that has us backed up but moving fast enough to keep me on the drive line.

I'll gladly take your bet. How would you like the proof? Let me get a venmo setup. See the thing with yard move is even if I do leave the property logged yard move it automatically kicks to driving once you exceed 20 mph or you leave the geofence around the DC. Would you like to see my logs for the past year? Past 2 1/2 we've been using Samsara for our logs? There has only been one time I haven't manually changed my duty status off yard move when I left the property. My tablet kept freezing so I left as it restarted knowing that it would still log my movements. Yard Move does affect your 14. Company policy is I log in within 5 minutes (at computer or on my phone) of entering the building so my 14 is already ticking by the time i get to the truck. It does not affect your 11. Even if i allowed the system to automatically kick me off yard move every single time that's no different than starting to drive while you're logged on duty and allow it to change for you.

Well, if it's sop to use yard moves for the local guys i'll come out an apologize for my ignorance.

Sid replies to Ryan:

Ryan, i can't believe your company would agree for you to drive over your hours to make a delivery. I hope you don't get inspected in the next seven days. It is in my experience that the trips are run day in and day out. If you're running out of time doing them then you may be doing something wrong and i would ask other drivers how they do that load. I've had loads with multiple stops that you had to take a 2 hour break during the first unload to do a split break so you had extra time coming back and that was how the trip was meant to be run.

I too find this hard to believe. If I knowingly pulled a stunt like this at Swift, at a minimum I’d be required to take a logs class and have an unpleasant sit-down with the terminal manager. Companies take HOS violations very seriously. It’s not worth it.

No company wants to knowingly hurt their CSA score. All of the major companies are audited, no way to hide a violation like this.

I don’t have time to appropriately reply to Ryan’s post. In short, anyone reading this, do NOT heed his advice, it’s wrong and very risky.

Well, if it's sop to use yard moves for the local guys i'll come out an apologize for my ignorance.

Well said, and needed. You obviously don't know what you don't know.

I use yard move multiple times daily, for the exact reason Rob mentioned: preserving my 11. It's simply one more tool in my shed that I use to maximize my days, and my paycheck. I bet you I save between 15-30 minutes of my 11 per day in this fashion. That's money in my pocket that would otherwise be wasted by rolling on the driveline. You can throw your money away if you want, but that's not how I'm wired.

Zig zag pattern? Who cares? That's the log auditor's job to navigate such logs.

I would almost bet my next settlement that you drive off the property and forget you're in yard moves more times than you would admit if your actually doing what you say you do.

And you would lose that bet. Mine kicks into drive automatically too as soon as I leave the geofence or go over 20 mph.

Sid replies to Ryan:

Ryan, i can't believe your company would agree for you to drive over your hours to make a delivery. I hope you don't get inspected in the next seven days. It is in my experience that the trips are run day in and day out. If you're running out of time doing them then you may be doing something wrong and i would ask other drivers how they do that load. I've had loads with multiple stops that you had to take a 2 hour break during the first unload to do a split break so you had extra time coming back and that was how the trip was meant to be run.

I too find this hard to believe. If I knowingly pulled a stunt like this at Swift, at a minimum I’d be required to take a logs class and have an unpleasant sit-down with the terminal manager. Companies take HOS violations very seriously. It’s not worth it.

No company wants to knowingly hurt their CSA score. All of the major companies are audited, no way to hide a violation like this.

I don’t have time to appropriately reply to Ryan’s post. In short, anyone reading this, do NOT heed his advice, it’s wrong and very risky.

This information stays with the company data for years, not just for 8 days when it rolls over on the truck's ELD. Companies are audited routinely and this will indeed show up as a red flag. Outside of auditing, this is what the plaintiff's investigators are looking for when these giant lawsuits are brought against drivers, or primarily companies. These "harmless small violations" don't just disappear.

As G-Town points out, terrible advice but a great example of what NOT to do.

For educational purposes this is what a somewhat average day looks like on my logs.

My Logs differ than most just because I usually have several stops a day. Using YM does not create a zigzag pattern as mentioned above since it's considered on duty. Even if it did you're expected to log as you do, do as you log. By logging YM I shaved off 12 minutes of time that would be marked as driving. Instead of the time coming off both my 14 and my 11 it only came off my 14. That could hypothetically be the difference in me making it home that night if I had a high mile run or inclement weather that requires lower speeds. When I leave the yard I always have a full 11 regardless of how much moving around the facility I did. Our wash bay is automatic, you just roll through it at a slow pace so you need to stay on YM. I then switched to on duty because i had a marker light out that our shop (right next to wash bay exit) had to swap out for me. Part of being a successful driver is knowing how to legally work the logs to your advantage. Sure, most days I could easily make it back without the YM. I've been doing it this way since it became an option and has saved me from needing a hotel numerous times. I prefer running my clock as close to my 14 as possible. I'm eligible for the 16 hour rule and use it somewhat frequently. I'd be irritated to need to use that for the few minutes it takes to park my tractor at the end of the day since I won't be able to use it until I get my reset in due to the way my schedule works which is why I also use YM at the end of my day (at the gate if my hours are close). Company policy is also no logging on drive line before you log pretrip, and no drive line after your post trip or you need to log it again. Again, probably overkill but it's their rules and I can follow them or find a new job. The way they run things has kept us out trouble with the DOT and I'm generally getting the green arrow to bypass (we don't have pre pass) the scales. If I do have to run across they usually get on the intercom and tell me I'm good to exit before my drives even hit the scale.

When YM first became an option on our logs the company was very strict about it only being allowed while at our 3 DCs. They've since changed it to be acceptable at any customers property that have a gate and a security guard on-site restricting the public from entering. If I'm doing a drop/hook at a gated facility I'm able to get the job done more quickly by being able to satisfy my 30 minute break requirement without needing to do the less than 5 mph creep. I'll still switch from on duty to yard move to reflect exactly what im doing. Some may say it's overkill but I'm doing what I feel best to cover my a**.

Also, to show the severity of log violations my company doesn't play those games. I believe your 3rd violation (which includes falsification) in a rolling year is termination. If I remember correctly first offense is a write up, second is week suspension, third is termination.