Massive Layoffs At UPS A Big Win For The Union!

You've decided that having low expectations hurts less when you wind up with very little in the end, which you will, and allowing others to take advantage of you is ok as long as you don't mind, which they do.

I'm not taken advantage of. I work for FedEx because I genuinely like the company. I'm paid well and my schedule is pretty leisurely allowing plenty of free time for my family and things I want to do. Money is not a concern at this stage of my life because I live comfortably.

I can say this: your attitude is much appreciated by some. In fact, the higher-ups could never pull off this caper if there weren't enough workers like yourself.

On the contrary, my supervisors aren't very find of me because I use Fedex's open door policy for everything. I use the Alert line if there's a manager that gets out of line or I feel they've done something wrong. It goes to a third party company that notifies HR, my service center manager and the district manager. It works very well. I can also access the company policy book from home and download it chapter by chapter. I don't need a union to speak to for me. I'm very capable of doing it myself.

Seriously, Anheuser Busch put a boy dressed as a girl on their product. It cost the company tens of billions of dollars and destroyed their brand for years, but the CEO keeps his $40 million per year job. That's what they call leadership in this country???

I'm aware. What did the union do about that?

Are you certain of that, Banks? Is that a fact in your mind?

I'm very certain. I'm sure the thousands that are about to be laid off from UPS due to them closing of 200 sort centers over the next 4 years agree with me.

You've not only convinced yourself of a lie, but you've made it your mission to support that lie.

I haven't lied once.

I started this conversation because unions racked up one win after another across the board in recent years, which is a proven fact, but those are inconvenient facts for you, aren't they?

Not really. They signed some college athletes, means nothing for the common person and UPS fired some middle management. Carol Tomé just announced the closing of a bunch of facilities and leaning into automation, which will result in thousands more (mostly union workers) losing their jobs. Is that a union loss? I pay very close attention to this stuff because it's the industry I'm in. If I need to move, I'll do it early. Notice I mentioned this happening at a UPS and gave specific locations way before it was announced on business news.

Our society is in this mess because too many people thought we could ignore the problem.

Our society is a mess because kids grew up being told their special and in an era of instant gratification. There's a blatant sense of entitlement that's mind blowing. Everybody deserves more, but nobody is willing to do anything to get more. Nobody wants to sacrifice.

I spoke to an older lady not too long ago that just got back from spending the winter in Mexico. I asked how she was able to afford it and she said "by eating rice and beans and not eating out". No credit cards or over leveraging.

My story is similar. I grew up in Brooklyn and shortly after getting married my wife and I went to an open house for a new building with condos. They wanted to 250k for a studio. For those of you that don't know, a studio is an efficiency. A small living space with no separate rooms. My wife and I had a conversation and decided to leave. We got online and looked for the cheapest areas to live that were close to us and the Poconos popped up. The homes were cheap and had not recovered from the 2008 fall out. I bought my house for 70k in 2015. 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms. Today, it's worth about 300k. I'm considering pulling a HELOC and buying some rental properties, but I need to do more research.

I can also tell you that I learned a lot when we first moved here and it wasn't easy. Things got so bad, I sold my wedding ring and now I just wear a black rubber one because I'll never be able to replace my original ring. I never blamed anybody else for my hard times. I accepted it, manned up and did what I had to do. I jumped from job to job taking the highest offers I can get. Nobody wants to sacrifice, but everybody is entitled.

I've got news for any men who think this way. It is not ok to allow another man to take advantage of you.

Why do you think that people not supportive of unions are ok with being taken advantage of? Do you not think that the union is just another business model taking advantage of members? It's not a free service.

It's not ok for another man to steal the fruits of your labor and force your kids to grow up with very little. Men are meant to be fighters. We're providers and protectors. Stand up and be men and fight!

Union employers do the same. CEOs of union companies and non union fortune 500 companies get paid millions. Unions don't and can't do anything to stop that. I'm still not sure what you're expecting to happen here.

As we speak, home ownership is out of reach now for 75% of Americans, and it continues to get worse.

Again, nothing to do with Unions. The cause of this is investment firms like Black Rock are buying up houses. I don't care how good the contract the union gets you is, you'll never be able to outbid black rock. You'd have to be at their level financially or be comfortable moving to an area that's less than desirable.

What I'm questioning is your acceptance of the situation as hopeless, your determination that unions can not improve it, and your willingness to do nothing about it.

Like I've stated, unions have no hand in what the top 10% earn and they have no hand in the real estate market. That's how I determined they can't improve anything.

Again, I'm also not hopeless. I think this is the easiest time to learn how to be wise with money and grow a portfolio or do something else. Podcasts, YouTube, Google, forums and AI are all priceless free tools that can teach you how to do anything or point you in the right direction. Social media is a networking tool. I can reach out to anybody in any field and pick their brain. It's amazing and valuable to anybody willing to use the tools. Please stop saying I'm hopeless, because that's very far from the truth. I'm realistic and optimistic.

The situation is dire. It is not okay to say you won't fight for fairness because "Pocket-watching was frowned upon when I was growing up."

Yep. I was taught you never count another man's money, you do the best you can with what you've got and I've done a damn fine job of it. Not bad for a kid from the projects in Brownsville.

Your kids will inherit the result of your efforts

I agree. My parents have nothing to leave me when they pass. My son will be fine when I pass because of life insurance and inheritance.

We can't have people who give up and say it's hopeless or write it off as someone else's responsibility.

I haven't written anything off as anyone's responsibility. I've been consistent in saying personal accountability is lacking today.

I find it interesting that I'm neither a worker nor a parent, yet I'm more willing to stand up and fight for a better future for workers than some workers who are parents!

O boy, that'd be a nasty fall from that high horse. What exactly is a better future for workers? Unions? I remember unions being big in factories and then those jobs were outsourced to India, Indonesia, China, Taiwan, Mexico and Brazil. Didn't work out to great for them. Then we have Yellow, where the union refused to discuss the contract unless money was discussed and the company was hanging by a thread. Those union employees got no say and the gates were locked. No, it's UPS that's investing a bunch of money in automated buildings to replace people.

Fast food places have done the same. Walk into a McDonald's and you have to go to the kiosk. Order on the app and you'll get a discount.

And that's before we get into the immigrant crisis. They're willing to do the jobs for a lot less in way worse conditions. What's the union doing about that? I know, backing the politicians causing it.

And I even forgot the butch Lewis act. Why are my tax dollars supporting union pensions that I never paid into and will never receive?

Because the unions membership numbers are dwindling and they don't have enough money to support retirees that are living longer than expected. If that bill wasn't signed they'd be SOL on those pension payments. Thanks unions.

Because the unions membership numbers are dwindling

Yap, thanks to guys like you.

There are signs when a debate is over. One of them is when a person starts playing dumb to distract you from making your next point, or pretends they don't know the answer to a question that poses an inconvenient truth.

I said:

Seriously, Anheuser Busch put a boy dressed as a girl on their product. It cost the company tens of billions of dollars and destroyed their brand for years, but the CEO keeps his $40 million per year job. That's what they call leadership in this country???

Banks replied:

I'm aware. What did the union do about that?

Banks, you know exactly what they did about it, so why did you ask? Why are you pretending you don't know? They got a huge raise for their drivers. We discussed that raise multiple times already, did we not? In fact, in the very next paragraph after the one you quoted I said:

But the union at Anheuser-Busch was determined to get their fair share as well, and they did. If that guy can screw up and keep his $40 million job, then the company has enough money to give the workers a raise. Turns out both were true.

Previously I had given a link to an article about the raise their drivers received, we discussed that raise, and I even broke down the worker pay and executive pay. Yet you still ask me what the union did about it?

That's not a good look for you, and I do not appreciate you wasting my time pretending you don't know the answer to another inconvenient truth, though I appreciate you playing the other side. This conversation is critically important in today's world, and these are thoughts I really want to share. You might not be one of the lions who will help shape the future, but this conversation will certainly reach more lions who will.

Exec #2: What? There's no way that 'alert line' worked!

CEO: Seriously, he calls it all the time!

Exec #3: Wait, this is the same guy who tells the others not to unionize because "they can speak for themselves?"

CEO: Same guy!

Exec #4: But we don't even bother taking the calls. We send them to some other company somewhere. What did he say about that?

CEO: He said it works very well!

Exec #2: You're sh*ttin' me! So that's it? We're good? No raises to hand out, no unions to worry about?

CEO: Not with this guy on our side! And get this....I put the company policy book online so he could download it from home, chapter by chapter.

Exec #4: I don't get it. What good does that do him?

CEO: I have no idea, but he digs through it constantly!

Exec #3: Like keeping a little kid busy for a while with an empty box?

CEO: No, it's even better because eventually the kid realizes he was fooled by an empty box.

Exec #2: What happens down the line if he wants a raise? He knows we make $100 million a year. How can we justify saying no?

CEO: We don't have to. He won't ask. He says that people asking for raises is what drove jobs out of the country.

Exec #3: He said that?

CEO: Yeah, but wait. That's not the best part. He won't even question our salaries. He doesn't care how much we make compared to his measly little salary.

Exec #2: What do you mean? Why not?

CEO: He says, "pocket-watching was frowned upon when I was growing up"

pocket-watching was frowned upon when I was growing up

When you begin learning how to build wealth, you realize poor people are poor because they have incorrect beliefs about how to manage their financial lives. That makes sense, right? You wouldn't be poor if you understood how to manage your financial life properly.

I say 'financial life' because one of the most important aspects of managing your money is managing your time. Poor people spend their time trying to save money; rich people spend their money trying to save time. They are opposite. This is only one small but important example.

We learned the beliefs that keep people poor when we were children. Our parents didn't mean to mislead us, of course. Their understanding was incorrect as well, or they would have been rich. So, they passed down their misunderstandings to their children.

"Frowning upon pocket-watching" is a way for parents to tell their kids that they're too poor to buy the things their friends have. But your parents don't want you to be embarrassed about that, and they don't want you to resent them or your friends for it. So your parents turned it into a moral issue. They taught you that you may have less than others, but accepting that with grace and dignity makes you a better person than those people who have more.

It's complete garbage is what it is. It's crippling to the child. You're manipulating the child to believe they should be proud of accepting less than what others have in life. The other message it sends is that people who have a lot must be envious or greedy. They want nice things, so they're not a good person like you are.

Total garbage.

All of us who were raised lower or lower-middle class were embedded with all the wrong beliefs about building wealth. In fact, most of us were taught that poor people have better morals than rich people, because rich people got what they have through greed and manipulation.

What are the chances you will ever become wealthy if you were taught that wealthy people are immoral? Almost zero. Your own conscience will work against you every time you start to have success. That little voice inside will keep saying,

"You shouldn't accept that raise. You shouldn't want that new car. You shouldn't be looking at that nice house. You'd better stop going down this path and retreat back to poverty so you can feel good about yourself."

There is an amazing book called Rich Dad Poor Dad which everyone who is not rich must read. You will be completely shocked at how backward so many of your views about money are.

• Stay out of debt
• Live within your means
• Do it yourself to save money
• Save your way to prosperity
• Skimp on yourself to save for retirement
• Get a job with good benefits
• Go to college

I could go on all day. Almost everything they taught us about managing our financial lives is wrong.

If you're not rich and you haven't read "Rich Dad Poor Dad" then do yourself a favor and get it. I promise you'll be shocked at how backward your thinking is about managing your money.

There is an amazing book called Rich Dad Poor Dad which everyone who is not rich must read. You will be completely shocked at how backward so many of your views about money are.

• Stay out of debt
• Live within your means
• Do it yourself to save money
• Save your way to prosperity
• Skimp on yourself to save for retirement
• Get a job with good benefits
• Go to college

I could go on all day. Almost everything they taught us about managing our financial lives is wrong.

If you're not rich and you haven't read "Rich Dad Poor Dad" then do yourself a favor and get it. I promise you'll be shocked at how backward your thinking is about managing your money.

Oh please.

One would be hard pressed to find worse financial advice than that provided by Robert Kiyosaki. He is currently in debt to the tune of $1.2 billion. He has declared bankruptcy on more than one of his endeavors including Rich Global LLC. I read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and my BS meter was pegged for most of the book. It is mostly a work of fiction.

Personally, my wife and I have grown wealthy in the financial sense by:

• Staying out of debt
• Living within our means
• Doing it ourselves to save money on many, but not all things
• Saving (and investing, primarily in the the stock market) our way to prosperity
• Not exactly skimping ourselves, but being frugal, to save for retirement
• Having jobs with good benefits
• And....going to college (me: BS, BS, MS; her: BS, MBA)

Full disclosure about those last two items -

Books I would recommend:

Your Money or Your Life by Dominguez and Robin

Security Analysis by Graham and Dodd (who taught Warren Buffett how to invest)

The Intelligent Investor by Graham

The Millionaire Next Door by Stanley and Danko

A Random Walk Down Wall Street by Malkiel

Buffettology by Mary Buffett (former daughter in law of Warren Buffett)

Yap, thanks to guys like you.

Not really. It's because they can't organize and suck at that they do. If they were actually useful, they'd have no problems signing employees up. It'll probably get worse now, with what UPS is about to do.

One of them is when a person starts playing dumb

When you can't attack the argument, attack the person.

Banks, you know exactly what they did about it, so why did you ask? Why are you pretending you don't know?

I really don't.

They got a huge raise for their drivers.

It's that what they did in response to the CEO's poor decision? And I wouldn't say it's a huge raise. 8 dollars over 5 years doesn't even keep up with inflation and it's in line with what hourly people at non union employees get.

Previously I had given a link to an article about the raise their drivers received, we discussed that raise, and I even broke down the worker pay and executive pay.

I saw that. That 8 dollars an hour over 5 years is really closing the gap on that 40M. Good job, teamsters. What will the CEO be making in 5 years? Doesn't matter because the union has no say. It's up to the board and the share holders.

Exec #2: What? There's no way that 'alert line' worked!

Now you're making up skits

And poorly written ones at that. The alert line doesn't go to execs and the CEO, it's handled by a third party company and at a local level. It's funny how you continue to make stuff up on things you know nothing about.

CEO: Yeah, but wait. That's not the best part. He won't even question our salaries. He doesn't care how much we make compared to his measly little salary.

Yeah, I really need that union to get 8 dollars over 5 years and close in on that 50M.

"Frowning upon pocket-watching" is a way for parents to tell their kids that they're too poor to buy the things their friends have.

Not really. Believe it or not, they're weren't too many rich people in the projects. Crazy, I know. It was more to keep us from focusing on what people that did illegal things have so we wouldn't follow that path. It also taught us to be resourceful and build on what we did have, but keep speaking on things you don't know or understand in absolutes. I'm actually laughing at this stuff.

What are the chances you will ever become wealthy if you were taught that wealthy people are immoral?

Pretty good in today's age. See where I said

I think this is the easiest time to learn how to be wise with money and grow a portfolio or do something else. Podcasts, YouTube, Google, forums and AI are all priceless free tools that can teach you how to do anything or point you in the right direction. Social media is a networking tool. I can reach out to anybody in any field and pick their brain. It's amazing and valuable to anybody willing to use the tools.

I'll wait for your next poorly written skit and bag of insults. It's not my fault UPS shot this thread down announcing the layoffs of thousands of unions in the next few years, but I'll bare the cross.

I know, I know I'll always be poor, I'm hopeless and "not a lion" lol.

The alert line doesn't go to execs and the CEO, it's handled by a third party company and at a local level. It's funny how you continue to make stuff up on things you know nothing about.

Except that I clearly did know that, and even included a joke about it in the skit, which you missed

Not to mention, my girlfriend worked at FedEx for 20 years and laughed about you taking the alert line seriously, so I knew exactly what it was, how it worked, and what I was talking about. So, you're wrong again.

Please, place more bets that I don't know what I'm talking about, and put them in writing publicly. I always enjoy how that ends.

Except that I clearly did know that, and even included a joke about it in the skit, which you missed

Well the skit was poorly written. There weren't many jokes in it, other than the poor attempt at making fun of my childhood and the lessons that I took from it. Lessons that led to some massive growth and led to the person am I today which I'm very proud of.

Not to mention, my girlfriend worked at FedEx for 20 years and laughed about you taking the alert line seriously, so I knew exactly what it was, how it worked, and what I was talking about. So, you're wrong again.

Not really. You nor your girlfriend don't know anything about the success I've had using the alert line. And since you said "worked" past tense, it matters even less.

I also wouldn't put too much stock in her information since you believed FedEx was one big opco not too long ago when freight started their furloughs. You know, how you insisted on how it terrible it was Fedex was laying off during "peak season" and I told you it's not our peak season and you needed to hear how it's not our peak season.

I'm assuming your done with the union talk, since you're not discussing it anymore and we're now discussing who knows more about FedEx and your horrible skits (maybe ask AI to write it next time), I'll leave this alone. If you need more union info, let me know.

Brett out of curiosity what is your first hand experience with being a union member. I understand your families past but were you personally a member. If so, was it trucking and for how long?