How Do You Deal With The Corporate Bs Long Term?

I don't do anything for free

No one does. Let me see if I can put this in a different light.

All of us are paid a percentage of the revenues that we produce. That's the bottom line. Let's make up some numbers.

Let's say you're making about 50% of your truck's revenues. The truck makes $200,000 per year in revenues, they paid you $100,000.

Well, the only way the company can pay you a percentage of revenues is to reveal to you (and therefore all of their competitors) what they're being paid for every load they haul. So instead, they figure out roughly how much they would pay you if they paid you by the mile instead. That's easier for the driver to keep track of, and the company doesn't have to reveal its financial details.

So it's pretty straightforward to pay drivers a certain amount per mile.

It's far more complex to pay drivers for everything they do because the number of variables will expand dramatically. If you try to predict all these things and more, the results would vary wildly from driver to driver:

• detention time
• fueling time
• waiting on repairs
• doing paperwork
• waiting on a load to be dispatched
• sitting in traffic
• ...etc, etc...

Your pay distribution would be far less predictable, fair, and performance-based. For instance, one driver might turn 30% more miles but somehow make 10% less than another driver because of how they each spent their time.

Drivers would constantly be gaming the system to see how they could make the most money while doing the least work. The company would have to make regular adjustments to pay ratios in hopes of making it more fair, predictable, and performance-based.

In the end, mileage pay manages all of that incredibly well, and adjustments can easily be made for extraordinary circumstances when the work you do goes far beyond the mileage you turned in that time frame. They just throw a few extra bucks your way and say thank you, which happens all the time.

So no one is ever doing anything for free. You're being paid fairly based on the work you produce. Paying you by the mile is simply the easiest way to achieve performance-based pay that's fair and predictable.

My mileage rate is 78 CPM. All of the accessorial pay is in addition to that. That's what I mean when I say I don't do anything for free. There's an established rate for every task I do from waiting to hooking up and dropping doubles. It's not built into the mileage rate, it's its own separate pay rate.

My mileage rate is 78 CPM. All of the accessorial pay is in addition to that. That's what I mean when I say I don't do anything for free. There's an established rate for every task I do from waiting to hooking up and dropping doubles. It's not built into the mileage rate, it's its own separate pay rate.

Understood.

Your job is far more predictable and controllable in those areas than an OTR job would be. How would you calculate the average detention time for 3,000 drivers running random freight to random customers? The discrepancy would be dramatic, and because you don't own the facilities you're serving, you can't control things like detention times as easily.

With your fleet, those things are far more predictable and controllable, so it averages out better.

You could also pay accessory pay more easily for a private fleet like Walmart. They likely have far more predictable and controllable accessory time.

In the end, it's just basic math, and it doesn't matter how you break down the details:

(How much did I make) minus (what was required of me) equals (was it worth it or not)

Ultimately, you're getting a certain percentage of the revenues you're producing. It makes no difference how they break it down. If they change how they break it down, they'll adjust it so you're making the same in the end anyhow. It's all pre-calculated.

People getting paid by the mile think their wages would go up if they started getting paid by the hour, or got more accessory pay. That's not what would happen. They would adjust your various pay rates so you make the same in the end. They can only give you a certain percentage of the revenues or they lose money. They know what they can pay you. It makes no difference how they break it down.

What if I gave you two choices for buying a car:

1. You can buy the entire car for $45,000

...or...

2. You get the entire car for free, except the steering wheel is $15,000, and the gas pedal is $30,000

Which is the better deal?

If you think mileage pay means you're doing most things for free, you would take deal #2. You will see it as the better deal because you get most of the car for free. That would have to be your conclusion.

Surprisingly few people would say it doesn't matter because you get the same thing for the same amount in the end.

Brett says

At the end of the year, I would look at the body of work and ask myself if it was worth it. I'd look at the risks, rewards, responsibilities, and sacrifices and ask myself if I was willing to do it again for another year.

That's it. It was that simple for me. I loved driving big rigs, and I felt they paid me fairly for what they asked me to do.

If you're happy with the money you're making for what they're asking you to do, then what else is there to worry about? If you're unhappy with the money you're making for what they're asking, then you should do something about it.

I'm confused by that statement because that's basically what Banks talked about in a discussion about unions and you were adamant that was the wrong way to live life.

..........I've got news for any men who think this way. It is not ok to allow another man to take advantage of you. It is not ok to allow another man to treat you unfairly. It's not ok for another man to steal the fruits of your labor and force your kids to grow up with very little. Men are meant to be fighters. We're providers and protectors. Stand up and be men and fight! (you too, ladies!)

So do we agree to NOT be compensated or do something about it????

Davy I have no experience running OTR or owning a business but I don't see how buying your own truck would be a better fit. There are companies out there that pay hub miles but most are not your standard OTR jobs. My current gig offers similar additional pay for extra duties in addition to my miles/stops like Banks earns. I've ran an additional 40 miles on a single run due to avoiding backs from construction and was compensated for running those miles no questions asked.

Your job is far more predictable and controllable in those areas than an OTR job would be.

I've never done otr so I don't speak on that aspect of this industry and every company pays different. Some pay it all in the cpm , others pay some and attach bonuses to get the rest. The employee has to pick what fits their needs best.

How would you calculate the average detention time for 3,000 drivers running random freight to random customers?

LTL companies do it all the time. FedEx has a 15 minutes per handling unit allotment before they start charging detention fees. It gets very expensive very fast. Old Dominion has a 10 minute allotment.

If they change how they break it down, they'll adjust it so you're making the same in the end anyhow. It's all pre-calculated.

Of course it is. Every company has a set cost for labor and their goal is to be at cost or lower. Whether or not it works out to the same has too many variables. For example, I have a friend that works for Estes. They can have him sitting there for hours waiting on a trailer. They won't pay him to hook up a trailer. Our CPM rate is equivalent. That's a more realistic comparison.

People getting paid by the mile think their wages would go up if they started getting paid by the hour, or got more accessory pay. That's not what would happen. They would adjust your various pay rates so you make the same in the end.

Again, too many factors to call that an absolute truth. It may be true driving through Nebraska, but it's not true going through LA or Atlanta. Again, the employee has to determine what works best for them. There's no one size fits all approach here.

If you think mileage pay means you're doing most things for free, you would take deal #2.

"If the wheels ain't turnin', i ain't gettin' paid". Probably the phrase that's most synonymous with trucking wages and has been for as long as I can remember. I'd say that my buddy that works at estes sitting, waiting 2 or 3 hours for a trailer is working for free. He's on duty and not getting paid. He calls me and sounds the way Davy did in his original post. I get the frustration and I wouldn't work for a company that did that because it doesn't work for me and I'd be frustrated every night.

I'm confused by that statement because that's basically what Banks talked about in a discussion about unions and you were adamant that was the wrong way to live life.

I noticed that too, but didn't want to reopen that can of worms.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I still embrace being paid by the mile, I'm used to piecework pay, and know how to extract profits out of it.

My gripes are not about how much I get paid, in fact I make far more than most of the drivers in my terminal , rather that in addition to what we push here, our performance dictates our pay, my ability to combat policies intentionally put in place to reduce my pay determines my pay.

As I said, I have elements of OCD, and it's proving very difficult for me not to obsess on those policies that are present and are designed to reduce costs by reducing pay.

I do indeed understand the economy of trucking. I'm ambivalent as to the corporations margins for the simple reason that the owners and or corporate members, shareholders take the risk and thus take the dividends, it's immoral and unethical to force the employees to take the risk or take part in the loss, we don't take part in the profit, unless there is profit sharing.

In general it seems that ignorance is bliss, or at least the ability to overlook abuse if you're making enough money and have enough perks. I generally do have great perks and make good money, but the battle of wills it takes to make that money is draining, even more so because it's not about my performance and ability to be a team player, it's just combat against an entity attempting to take money out of my hands at every given opportunity. The why the company does that is immaterial, the results are the same.

The company is and will be eliminating the operating mindset of rewarding safe productive drivers, at least in dry van and reefer. Already it's been changed from highest producing and well liked to first come first served on loads. Further, there is a push to enforce a lot of the rules and policies in place that are common, things like loosing your truck after a week off, reduced layover and detention pay, etc. As new DMs are moved in, and old ones move out, they don't know any better and subscribe to the the more woke push, it's been a cumbersome battle with my new DM. The 8th one I've had in 3 years. She's young and naive, she doesn't know how to bend the rules, nor does she have much interest in doing so.

In regards to going owner op, leasing on to a carrier, again, it's not about the money, it's unrealistic to expect to net that much more. It's the fact that everything is done under contract in black and white, there's less Grey areas to argue over and less opportunity for the company to nickel and dime me. The company and the op have their scope of work and payment lined out. It's very similar to what I was doing as a contractor, everything in writing, no vague ambiguities.

I have read through here and not said anything. I know I’m kinda the odd duck in this pond.

Davy your last comment about everything being black/white in writing with a contract. That is very much a yes/no answer when you lease onto a carrier or even have your own authority.

Those contracts are written by lawyers for the betterment of the company. There are loopholes built in that the company can and will enforce when it suits them.

I have seen drivers raise hell about something and then it is pointed out the contract says it is permissible and they signed it. I will say from my experience a vast majority sign those contracts without reading and understanding them. I can site alot of examples but that isn’t the point. Point is the company constructs the contract in their favor.

I did the leased on thing for several years, but I also knew what the contract said. Were there times I was unhappy over an issue?? Many times. The good outweighed the bad for along time so I stayed. Once it started getting to a point I didn’t want to deal with I went elsewhere.

I still deal with issues daily. Broker agreements or a shipper contract will always have those loopholes. You can not get away from that in this industry.

Broker agreements you have no choice over. Either agree or don’t is the only control you have.

Shipper contracts are generally tighter and you have a little more control depending on the size of the shipper, but even at that you have very minimal control.

Most contracts spell out detention time as an example. However how it is enforced can vary widely. The customer gets billed for it then they want to dispute it and alot of back and forth goes on.

Alot of carriers will decide to let that one go to build a better position with the customer. Yes it was in the contract in black/white however doesn’t get enforced. The driver is the one that ulitamely looses out in that scenario.

When times are good things run looser, but when times get tough everyone starts tightening things up. We have been in this current trucking downturn far longer than normal which is effecting everyone big and small.

I have brokers emailing me daily wanting me to pull their loads. There have been some I rejected immediately after reading their contract. Others I may pull for if I need the work. It’s all a case by case decision.

Just my opinion based on my experiences.

I definitely appreciate your experience and knowledge. I do review contracts thoroughly. I usually had our attorney review our contracts with the builders we worked for, they're always set up to benefit the builder, nit the subcontractor aa well. It's one of those things that if you want the work, you'll accept the contract terms.

There have been instances on extras that were loosely defined that we had to fight for such as when a builder changed the design and added 24 second story windows to be trimmed per house. It took a bit but we got them added in, it added over 200k to a 4 year contract. Significant money.

The point is though is that while there's not much more room to leverage as a business, there is more than as an employee.

Part of the problems I've been having lately, I did some digging on, have been with my new DM. Or rather how we work together. It's led to some real frustration on my part. I'm going to be switching back to my previous DM , in order to do so, I will have to be a relief trainer, which I've been considering for some time now. It's not a decision I make lightly without carefully planning it and gathering good data before doing it.

I understand the frustration with DM’s. When I started out I went through many, no fault of mine.

Like drivers most big companies seem to have high turn over rates in that position. The companies I worked for both as a company and leased on driver all did it. I actually went through a change in that approx every 6-12 months. It was like starting over each time. Very frustrating.

The training thing is a very personal choice. Trainers are needed. However they need to be doing it because they want to and actually train, instead of just using that position to get paid a little more.

OS has had the same DM for years. From my experience that is a rare occurrance.

I was asked and turned training down because it was not what I wanted to do at that time. I had been involved in training for decades in my previous proffession and just wanted to be responsible for me at that point in my driving career.

I have been approached regarding going back into my previous proffession and rejected that notion. I’m at a great place in my life and don’t plan on rocking that boat.

I’ve started slowing down in the trucking as well. I spent alot of time and energy putting this plan in place and now it’s time to enjoy the benifit of that.

Just take deep breaths and one day at a time. This business can take a big toll on a person if you let it. At the end of the day you have to make the decision you feel is right for you…

So do we agree to NOT be compensated or do something about it????

Again, no one is doing anything for free. It seems you guys must have everything neatly labeled in order to understand it.

If the company doesn't specifically say, "We paid you $5 to fuel your truck," then you seem to think you're doing it for free. You don't seem to understand that getting paid by the mile means they've averaged out all the work you'll do in order to turn those miles so that you're getting paid a consistent share of the revenues you're producing.

How would you guys describe the compensation of someone who is working for a consistent salary? Let's use the example of a restaurant manager who is paid $75,000 per year.

No one ever spells out exactly what the manager has to do to earn that salary except for one goal - grow the revenues 10% per year and the profits at 12% per year. That's it. That's the only stipulation.

So now what?

• How many hours do they put in?
• What are their job duties?
• How many days a week must they work?
• What work should they do themselves, and what should they delegate?

People rarely mention those specifics for a salary position. They just say, "Manage the restaurant so that it reaches revenue growth of 10% per year and profit growth of 12% per year. Figure it out."

So, if that's what you were paid, how would you guys get your minds around that?

• Is the manager doing everything for free because the company didn't break down the pay by job duty?
• What if the manager comes in one day per week but still meets the goals? Is that ok?
• What if the manager works his ass off seven days a week and doubles his goals? Is he killing himself for nothing?

How would you guys handle that?

If you can't understand why getting paid by the mile is the best approach for OTR and regional drivers, then you can't possibly understand how being paid a steady salary works, either.

I can see I haven't explained this topic well enough for everyone to understand. I have an article I've written and a podcast about it, but I think I need to do a deep-dive video to explain this more thoroughly. There are tons of drivers being paid by the mile who think they're being screwed when they're truly in an excellent position.

Finally, you guys are asking, "How can you say that men should stand up for themselves and not let anyone walk all over you, and yet be happy with your circumstances at the same time? Don't those two contradict each other?"

Well, both can be true at the same time. You can negotiate a fair deal for yourself, which prevents people from taking advantage of you, and walk away with a good deal and your integrity. I think you guys are still under the impression that you're working for free if they didn't list it on your pay stub, but I don't believe that's the case, so I don't believe they're taking advantage of drivers.