How Do You Deal With The Corporate Bs Long Term?

To be clear, I've never supported Household Mover's Guide (HHG) miles. I've always supported practical hub miles for truck routes. I always support getting paid practical truck route miles with extras kicked in when it's warranted, like long layovers or breakdowns.

But I've never endorsed the practice of HHG. Most of the companies I worked for paid HHG, and I always watched the paid miles to make sure it was close. If it was off by much, I'd request an adjustment, and 95% of the time they would do it.

Also, Pianoman, you said I always defend the major trucking companies. Why would I do that? Are you under the impression they're in the room with me, with a gun pointed at my head, telling me what I must say like some crazy mafia movie?

Not hardly. The people who run these companies have no clue who I am, though they've probably heard of the website. If you think powerful people in this industry stop what they're doing to make sure Brett is spreading the 'approved message' then you've way overestimated my place in this industry, but I appreciate that you think they're worried about what I think. Unfortunately for my status, that's laughable.

I aim to help people understand the trucking industry and support them throughout that first year. I explain how the industry works so drivers can find the niche that suits them best and make the most of their careers, both financially and with their enjoyment of this career.

I'm not an activist, I never have been. I'm not trying to change how the industry works. I'm just trying to help drivers understand it and make their way.

I don't want to insult your intelligence but I have to wonder if you've just been out of a truck for so long you don't realize what it's really like to drive for the largest carriers these days.

Ok, Pianoman. I'll consider that. If you wouldn't mind switching roles and playing the teacher for a moment, teach me what it's like driving for the megas today and contrast that to what I went through during my career. Include as many details as you can so I can better understand it. We have quite a few people in our community who still work for the super megas, like Old School and Kearsey, so they'd probably like to learn about this as well.

You have the floor. Lay some serious knowledge on me, brother.

C'mon man, you know I don't think this:

Also, Pianoman, you said I always defend the major trucking companies. Why would I do that? Are you under the impression they're in the room with me, with a gun pointed at my head, telling me what I must say like some crazy mafia movie?

When did I say that I think they're telling you what to do or give any kind of impression that's what I think? I said:

lots of people over the years have accused you of being in the mega's pockets.

I didn't say I agree with "lots of people." In fact, I said:

I think you're a straight shooter as you claim so I don't think that's it.

Then you said:

Ok, Pianoman. I'll consider that. If you wouldn't mind switching roles and playing the teacher for a moment, teach me what it's like driving for the megas today and contrast that to what I went through during my career. Include as many details as you can so I can better understand it. We have quite a few people in our community who still work for the super megas, like Old School and Kearsey, so they'd probably like to learn about this as well.

You have the floor. Lay some serious knowledge on me, brother.

No. I gave you three comments of material including one where I went through and described the difference between my experience driving for a mega and my experience driving for a specific smaller carrier. I included disclaimers to make sure it was understood that I am aware that some differences are simply due to the nature of the companies and what they do, not just their size. I included another example showing a difference between my current carrier and Swift as well. But instead of pulling from that material, you want me to spend more time (which you know I don't have much of) writing out more comments detailing the differences between megas and smaller carriers.

Why would you want me to do that? Because you know that I'll trip up if I try to give an all-encompassing list describing megas vs smaller carriers. Because it doesn't exist. Every company is different. Not only that, but many mega companies have smaller fleets within the company that operate like smaller companies for the most part. There isn't anything I can say about megas vs smaller companies that you don't already know and we both know that.

All I can give is generalizations, which is what I've already done.

What you haven't done is actually answer the question. I asked you

why do you consistently back the big guys whenever there's an argument about this?

Then you asked me just now:

Also, Pianoman, you said I always defend the major trucking companies. Why would I do that?

Well, why would you? I'm pretty sure I asked you first. If it's just that you had a good experience and you'd do it again, no argument there. You're entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I really don't care who you like and I doubt you care who I like. What's frustrating is when someone comes on complaining about "corporate BS" and you spend comment after comment essentially explaining that's just how the industry works.

I don't know how to describe it but everyone here knows what I'm talking about. Someone comes on here with some complaint about their large carrier. Then someone else hops on and suggests maybe they try a different or smaller carrier. Then we as a whole bombard them and assure the first person their big carrier is just fine and the grass couldn't possibly be greener on the other side. If the people advocating for a smaller carrier start to add up, you come in and set everyone straight. It's just weird. Now, I completely understand if we're talking about someone who is brand new to the industry or within their first year. That's not the case with Davy.

Listen, FWIW, I don't care what company anyone works for. I'd work for a mega again if I needed to. I don't think they're inherently evil. My main argument for smaller large carriers is I just like them more and I gave some of my reasons why.

To be clear, I've never supported Household Mover's Guide (HHG) miles. I've always supported practical hub miles for truck routes. I always support getting paid practical truck route miles with extras kicked in when it's warranted, like long layovers or breakdowns.

But I've never endorsed the practice of HHG. Most of the companies I worked for paid HHG, and I always watched the paid miles to make sure it was close. If it was off by much, I'd request an adjustment, and 95% of the time they would do it.

Fair enough.

I aim to help people understand the trucking industry and support them throughout that first year. I explain how the industry works so drivers can find the niche that suits them best and make the most of their careers, both financially and with their enjoyment of this career.

I think you do a great job of that and never said otherwise. If it weren't for this website I don't know where I'd be in my career. But the big company push here (or at least that's what it's always felt like and I'm far from the only one in my opinion) gets old after a while. That's all.

(Thanks for fixing the formatting in my previous comment)

Here's something I think causes a lot of confusion when we have a discussion like this one. So many of the members involved here have been in the industry for quite a few years. Bobcat Bob and Banks have awesome, great paying jobs in the LTL sector. Pianoman has the benefit of experiencing several different trucking jobs. He's moved around a little and knows what he likes- that's all great. These are experienced drivers.

Brett made a remark that we can't ignore when he said this...

I aim to help people understand the trucking industry and support them throughout that first year.

Brett feels strongly that this is his mission. It is the purpose of the website. That's why he strongly encourages getting started with the mega carriers. That's where it is generally the "best practice" at starting your trucking career.

We are aware there's other options, but for the most part they are limited in scope and by locations. When he's teaching people about trucking, that's who he wants to help. He's not going to be much help to someone who's convinced they've got it figured out. I think we see evidence of that all throughout this conversation.

When we see people struggling with the issues that are inherent to trucking, we know they are spiraling downward in the satisfaction of their career.

Davy is going through this. It's a common affliction. We usually feel they are misplacing the blame, and we catch heat for that. Davy and I are employed by the same corporate entity. I don't experience any of the same things he complains of.

That's why I don't think you can blame it on the greedy corporation. If it were greed, they'd be squeezing everybody equally. Each of us has to navigate our trucking career based on a lot of variables. Davy has had way too many driver managers. That's always going to cause problems. I've had only one in nine years.

We are all different and our preferences are different. The perks Pianoman mentioned enjoying, gave me a chuckle. That's not an insult. I chuckled because none of them meant anything positive for me. But they were important to him. That's great. That's what he should pursue if it's important.

I think we all give an awful lot in this career. We are compensated well, but there's always room for improvement. I've always focused on what I have power to change. That program has worked well for me. Some will say that's what the corporation wants from you. They want you to bust your ass for them.

When I tried to convince Davy that he was up against the "economics of trucking." He seemed to brush me aside, assuring me he understands it. I'm not sure he does. I actually think this whole conversation is really about the economics of trucking. It hasn't changed for decades, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Banks makes comments about the trucking companies making big profits while keeping the drivers held down. I've never seen it that way. There's big money moving around in the transportation business, but operating ratios are very narrow. There are no big percentage measurements in profits. FedEx has been turning away business because it's unprofitable. They are very smart to do that.

There's very little "extra" money in trucking that can go to the driver under the current conditions of the freight market. The most savvy drivers figure out how they can get more dollars to come their way. Some of them vote with their feet, but many discover opportunities right where they are.

Efficiency is the goal in trucking. That's the pressure point of the trucking industry's economics. Every part of the pay scale is to enforce efficiency. I find there's always room for me to improve in that area. Many get fed up with the push and move elsewhere. That's why driver churn is a real thing.

The push for efficiency will always be with us. During tight times like we are in now, we feel the pressure more intensely.

Hey Pianoman, I think the reason AFW was such a great fit for you had nothing to do with it being a "smaller company." I think it was because it was a "private fleet." That's the reason so many want to work for Walmart. The economics of that model are very different from the companies moving other people's goods. Private fleets will almost always pay better.

Banks makes this point:

It's doable. At the very least, drivers should be paid hub miles and not practical miles. At some point in the past, practical miles made sense. It was efficient to pay center zip code to center of zip code when you had to look at a map or an atlas. Today, it's easy to know how many miles are between point A and point B, even with the preferred route. There's no excuse for this other than trying to keep rates low and profits up.

Banks, my man, that is a brilliant point. Well said!

"We can not win a war if we wont admit we are in one"

That is a profound statement a friend made to me today that sums up much of the original thought in my post. Theres been a lot of heat in this thread, and unfortunately sometimes people loose sight of the fact that its incumbent on us to debate in a civil discourse, shy away from personal arguments and focus on facts and data based conclusions.

Let me first clear up a few things. I most certainly am not beginning a death spiral with the trucking industry, nor with Knight. I love driving a truck, I love the relationships I have with the people at Knight. I said a few years ago, in my CDL Diary that I found everyone I met at Knight to be very courteous, professional and very helpful. I still find that to be true today.

Indeed, as Old School pointed out, the point of this community is to serve those getting into the industry first and foremost. Large carriers of course provide great resources and are the best practice for that, I think we can all safely agree on that. It begs the question, would I recommend Knight to someone getting into the industry? Absolutely, 100 percent, in fact 110 percent. For the reasons Ive laid out since day one.

Both OS and myself work for the same corporation, but the differences in our divisions is vast. Ive done dedicated lanes for Knight, while not in the same division, they have commonalities. The pay is much more simple, they are far less random and chaotic than dry van , general freight, there is far more structured in daily ops, in short, its a vastly different experience. To conclude that because one hasnt seen the effects that others do, that somehow those effects dont exist is simply denial. Its akin to the ostrich burying its head in the sand.

Which brings me to the heart of the matter. First off, my original post had nothing to do with differing pay types, carrier size, megas vs mids, or anything of the sort. There is a prevalent mindset and argument that surfaces here that is a logical fallacy. It is that Mega carriers can only be beneficial and not have aggressive policies in keeping drivers pay low. The reality is that both conditions exist. We, for logical and sound reasons, guide newcomers, usually and more accurately in the zero to six months range, away from the "Mega carriers are all bad" stereotype. If we were to give any credence to that stereotype, they would run away with it. Its a compelling reason to carry the message we do. It in fact led to me having a career that I love. Its a good possibility that I wouldnt have had succeeded with my plans had I not found that message here. I have an eternal debt of gratitude to this community for that.

But I think we can also serve the drivers that make it past their rookie year or so and find themselves being a safe, reliable driver thats easy to work with that do unfortunately become disenfranchised with trucking as a whole. Many of these drivers end up leaving the industry all together. Why? Because they get to the point where they are simply not being paid enough even though theyre doing everything right. Many, if not most, dont have the same life experience we do, they dont have the business acumen to engage in battle for wages, and the message they have cued into is that if they play by the rules, the large corporate entity will be excellent for them. The next logical question is, "Why arent they making enough?" The answer is because they are in a war with a skilled, motivated entity that is intent on extracting every bit of their most precious commodity: time. That entity that we promote as a best practice without addressing the negatives of.

It begs the question, Would I recommend my current employer to a second year driver that is safe, reliable, productive and easy to work with? Me personally, I would think long and hard about it. The answer is conditionally. Provided I could convey to them that they need skills to negotiate pay on everything. That its a corporation in an industry that is geared to exploiting their time at every given opportunity. Its a war, that is fought diplomatically, always professional and civil, but there are battles, some you will win, some you will loose. You will need to decide how and what you want to negotiate, how much you want to give and take, but its always there.

Continued on next reply

Continued....

What do I mean by battles and systemic patterns? Lets take errors and omissions on pay for example. Our payroll department is specifically designed to deny input of ancillary pay. Detention, layover, breakdown, and especially extra miles are not in payrolls system and have to be manually entered. This is done for several reasons, the primary of which is that it deters drivers from attaining them and is intentionally difficult for driver managers to get these items covered. The result is that there is often errors and omitted items. How do I know this? Because Ive had several discussions with the payroll department and asked questions, very friendly and nicely. They explained to me how difficult it is for them to get ancillary items paid. This doesnt mean that Suzie J. Buttonpusher or Jane Dataentry is personally trying to keep drivers from getting paid. Its out of their hands. Its a systemic policy at the corporate level, designed to control costs. Nothing personal. Just business. How do I combat it? After 30 years of doing business, Im famillar with how AP (accounts payable) and AR (accounts receivable) work. Its not uncommon for builders to take up six months to pay extras for the exact same reasons. The big difference is that I have leverage of slapping a lien on a house if not paid in a timely manner, though it would sever the relationship. Obviously, someone in OS's position doesnt see this, or at least nearly as much in his more structured lane, so it makes sense as to why he would assume that our payroll dept never or seldom or has errors. With me its a daily and weekly occurance. Over 80 percent of my checks have had errors favoring the company. I watch my AR like a hawk, so I expect it to happen and plan accordingly.

Thats just one small example. Lets address another systemic nefarious behavior. I recently did a phone survey of similar sized carriers. For dry van and refer general freight, the average cpm with comparable benefits was 60 cpm. My base rate at 3.5 years of service is 52 cpm. Thats 15.3 percent lower than the median average. Our "bonuses", which the name its self is another corporate load of fertilizer, is ironically 8 cpm total, or as you probably guessed it by now, 15.3 percent of my wages. I accept that though, Im up for the challenge. To put it in perspective, 8 cpm on 11k miles per month is over 10,000 dollars per year. In a recent poll of our drivers 75 percent were unable to attain full bonuses for even 2 consecutive months in one year. Ive attained full bonuses 6 to 9 months in a row at a time. That came from identifying systemic vulnerabilities and designing systems to capitalize on those.

To understand how complex the calculations and standards are for qualifying for the bonuses is difficult to summarize. But in general, the fuel mpg portion of the bonus structure is based on dispatched miles divided by gallons purchased. Dispatched miles, which as we have been over, are generally 6 to 10 percent short, lets call it 8 percent. The stated mpg goal is 7.31, with the lost 8 percent bringing it to 7.98 mpg. Now, in western 11, mountain states and most of so cal, this figure is totally unrealistic and almost impossible to obtain. Aside from those logical points. there is a 4 week rolling average that is actually calculated in a 28 day period ending on the last Saturday of the period in the given month. If your eyes have rolled back in your head and you cant follow me, dont feel bad, It took me a year or so of data collection to game the system. Very few of us obtain the fuel bonus in dry van. The companies version of what your mpgs are, as listed on portal, are so far off that my DM just asks me what my fuel is because mine is so accurate. Ive caught errors, of course to the company's benefit, 4 months out of 8. Thats 50 percent of the time. This is a systemic pattern, its not an occasional error. Again, I watch it like a hawk, wouldnt you for 10,000? Also, again, having been on dedicated, half our miles were empty, consistent miles in consistent areas with consistent load weights makes its much easier to attain, so it makes sense as why you wouldnt see the patterns.

The safety component is even more convoluted, with less standards. Ill go down that rabbit hole on the next page...

you want me to spend more time (which you know I don't have much of) writing out more comments detailing the differences between megas and smaller carriers.

Why would you want me to do that?

Why? You called me out on it, that's why. Let me remind you:

I don't want to insult your intelligence but I have to wonder if you've just been out of a truck for so long you don't realize what it's really like to drive for the largest carriers these days.

It's rather surprising to hear that a former student, someone whose career I've had a hand in shaping, would publicly question my knowledge and understanding of trucking. This has been my life's work - thirty-one years in this industry and still going strong.

If you truly believe that I am out of touch with the current state of the trucking industry and no longer capable of doing my life's work, I would expect you to provide concrete evidence or specific examples that support your claim. It is easy to make blanket statements, but it takes a true professional to back up their opinions with facts.

So I'm asking for the facts. What led you to believe I'm out of touch and no longer capable of doing my job?

Continued....

The safety component, for which the company will not produce the calculation peroids, the scoring, the standards for which they base the scoring on, the appeals process which doesnt exist, and the real time data used to determine an event is even more vague and ambiguous. I drove for 13 consecutive months with an average score of 6. 4 months of which had no events whatsoever. I tracked the data for what caused events and got an average of 3.2 seconds of following distance for 3 continuous seconds in 7 seconds would cause the most common event, following distance. If you applied service braking within 3 seconds for .5 seconds, it would negate the event. Those figures are not valid anymore, Ive ran the videos through video editing and analysis software and it showed following distances of up to 4.6 seconds at 55 mph yet were still dinged for it. Its a completely subjective standard that was almost impossible to nail down. I finally found some systemic openings and was able to work around the problems. The point is, that its just another small battle in a cold war.

I could fill many pages of insidious systems that are designed to reduce the pay to the driver, pick a topic, any topic. From trailers to production quotas, from tires to shippers, anything and everything has a system that is designed to benefit the company, often at the expense of the driver. Yes, we understand that a company can only pay a driver so much, and they need to do what they need to do in order to survive. But that doesnt make it acceptable. Period. This is the nature of the industry, undeniably true. Also undeniably true that we have few choices, we can fight it every step of the way or we can roll over and take it. If one wants to be a beta, to accept the death by a thousand cuts, so be it. I choose not to.

I dont fight the battles against my TM or DM. I dont fight with the people over it. I fight the policies, both written and unwritten. I see the patterns and I combat them through negotiations, reasoning, performance and planning. Isnt it time we stop denying the combat and learn how to succeed in it. I personally love the battlefield. The corporate entity is a very worthy opponent. I carry myself with honor on the battlefield. It pays dividends. The average salary for dry van at Knight is 48k. Ive earned in the low to mid 80s each year. Just being a safe, productive driver thats easy to work with is not enough. You need to learn how to combat and fight entire systems that are designed ultimately to reduce your revenue. Its undeniably true.

Perhaps a solution would be make a small portion of the community for drivers as they gain experience and their struggles there, to keep them engaged and offer solutions for them as they grow. Just a thought.

Davy has had way too many driver managers. That's always going to cause problems. I've had only one in nine years.

Just out of curiosity, which experience is more common yours or Davy's?

We are all different and our preferences are different

That's been my point all along. You have to determine what compromises you're willing to make and live with them. What makes one person happy won't necessarily work for somebody else.

Banks makes comments about the trucking companies making big profits while keeping the drivers held down.

That's not what I said. I said the customers take the lowest bid and the trucking companies race to the bottom, and it comes out of the employees pocket. It's the truth. They only pay you some of your money and pay you the rest for safety and staying under the preferred mpg threshold. That tells me they have the money and they can pay it, but they choose not to and use it as an incentive.

I also said that they pay practical miles instead of hub miles was a tactic to keep profits high because it is. It's wage theft. A driver is doing work and not being compensated for it. The revenue and percentage breakdown isn't the drivers fault. They didn't negotiate the price and there's an agreed upon wage and Those miles aren't anything to scoff at. That's an 40-80 miles they're not getting paid for. It's a substantial amount of money and time invested. If an employer asked an employee to do that amount of work and refuse to compensate for it "industry standard" wouldn't an acceptable excuse.

FedEx has been turning away business because it's unprofitable. They are very smart to do that.

They're taking advantage of this slow economy and uprooting everything to restructure it and make it more efficient. FedEx also pays us 2 bonuses a year based on their profits. My last bonus in January was about 1600.

There's very little "extra" money in trucking that can go to the driver under the current conditions of the freight market.

That's not the employees problem. Knight had enough money to pay 5M to the David Jackson so he could leave, but they can't pay a driver those extra 40 miles that they actually worked for. Not going to convince me that it's because they can't afford it.

I actually think this whole conversation is really about the economics of trucking.

I've never claimed to be an expert on the economy of trucking, but what I do know is that in this country you get paid for all of the work you do, unless it's trucking. Then you're expected to work for hours and drive a few miles for free because "that's trucking". No, that's theft.

Isnt it time we stop denying the combat and learn how to succeed in it.

That's a great idea. I love that approach. That's why I've been doing it for 17 years.

I've been teaching people how the trucking industry works and how to succeed exactly as it is today. I was never an activist fighting for change. But if I don't sit here and bash companies all day long, you guys accuse me of being out of touch with reality or being a shill to the corporations.

Look at this conversation. I'm attacked every time I do what you suggest, which is to give advice for handling a situation or insights into how things work.

I say getting paid by the mile is the best system and I explain in great detail why. You guys call me a shill who's defending the corporations.

I say concentrate on increasing your mileage because that's the best way to maximize your pay, and you guys accuse me of supporting forced free labor.

If I say I believe the system is fair and a driver can make great money and earn a great wage exactly as things are today, you accuse me of not standing up for drivers or supporting the workforce

I say maybe you should consider getting together in some sort of a union, you guys say unions are corrupt, and I'm now I'm a shill for the unions!

Let's face it. Some of you are super miserable right now, and nothing that anyone says will help. God knows I've tried.

Davy, you said you made about $80,000. Why are you underperforming the other experienced drivers in this forum? Old School, Turtle, Rob T, Daniel B, and others are making over $100k, and they all work at different companies, in different regions of the country, and in different segments of the industry.

You have a flatbed guy, an LTL guy, a Walmart guy, and a fuel hauler, all making over $100k.

The money is out there to be made, and you deserve your share, but you'll never get there unless you get to the root of the problem. You're spending an enormous amount of time dissecting accessory pay and digging into data collection, but that will not close the $20k gap between your earnings and the others.

Figure out what's holding you back. It isn't accessory pay. It isn't corporate greed. It isn't the size of your company. It's not a conspiracy against drivers.

Maybe you have to switch divisions. Maybe you have to change companies. Maybe you need to march into the office and demand the best damn dispatcher your company has.

I'm not sure what you must do to get into that $100k range, but I know the avenues you're focused on won't get you there.