How Do You Deal With The Corporate Bs Long Term?

I think we all give an awful lot in this career. We are compensated well, but there's always room for improvement. I've always focused on what I have power to change. That program has worked well for me.

That's something I stated earlier. I just want to reiterate my point. Brett is basically saying the same thing when he says...

Figure out what's holding you back. It isn't accessory pay. It isn't corporate greed. It isn't the size of your company. It's not a conspiracy against drivers.

Maybe you have to switch divisions. Maybe you have to change companies. Maybe you need to march into the office and demand the best damn dispatcher your company has.

Everything he mentions is under your control or power. Why waste all your energy and time analyzing the company's software and algorithms on their camera scoring system? You can't change any of that or have control over it other than deliberately driving safely and responsibly.

When you want results you take the steps that yield them. Banks chose a job that satisfies his needs. He is obviously pleased for the most part, that's why he's still there.

I would never consider the guys in this conversation as "terminal rats." They obviously want the best they can get from trucking, and that's the way a professional conducts himself.

As drivers we have the power to change our circumstances. Sometimes we have to move on. I'm a big proponent of sticking it out so you can learn how to improve your present situation.

Everybody knows I switched from the company I started with at some point. I did that at the point I felt I had maximized my potential. My new opportunity offered me much greater chances at advancing my career. I jumped at that.

Davy, I feel for you man. I know your brain works harder than you do. I wouldn't allow myself to be so distracted with battles you can't win. You've moved around a lot at Knight. I understand you've done that to hopefully improve your situation. I can't even imagine having to start again with that many DMs. That's hard, and it's taken a toll on you.

I realize I have a distinct advantage. I hope you can move forward. You may benefit from a fresh start somewhere else. I'll leave that to you, but I just want to ask about one thing you said earlier. Here it is...

In a recent poll of our drivers 75 percent were unable to attain full bonuses for even 2 consecutive months in one year.

I was never polled. I'm curious how large a sample this is. Was it company wide or was this just your terminal? Who conducted the poll? What was the purpose of the poll?

I remember once sitting down for about thirty minutes with another Knight driver on this flatbed account and explaining measures he could take to get in on the bonus money he was missing.

About 13 or 14 months later we ran into each other and he was grinning from ear to ear. He told me he had increased his annual pay by about twelve thousand dollars without any increase in his wage.

He could hardly believe how much control he had. He just never realized he could make that dynamic of a change. It's simply education. He just needed a little mentoring. He was at the point of frustration that was making him want to quit.

Okay, forgive my getting sidetracked. Davy, you blame the small percentage of people consistently getting bonuses on corporate malfeasance and theft. Those are the words you and Banks are throwing around. My question is what do you think the other 25% of drivers are doing to consistently achieve their bonus money? They are the folks I would be studying and aligning myself with. They have obviously figured something out.

Maybe you are part of that small group. It sounds as if you are. You have evidence you are making far more than some of the other drivers you compete with. Congratulations! That's all good. If you want to improve more, you may have to find a different company. I can't answer that one for you. Just make sure you've done everything you can to capitalize on what you have currently.

“Maybe you have to switch divisions. Maybe you have to change companies. Maybe you need to march into the office and demand the best damn dispatcher your company has.”

That is probably it in a nutshell. Dry Van is lower paying than other lines, in my experience, just in general.

It's rather surprising to hear that a former student, someone whose career I've had a hand in shaping, would publicly question my knowledge and understanding of trucking. This has been my life's work - thirty-one years in this industry and still going strong.

If you truly believe that I am out of touch with the current state of the trucking industry and no longer capable of doing my life's work, I would expect you to provide concrete evidence or specific examples that support your claim. It is easy to make blanket statements, but it takes a true professional to back up their opinions with facts.

So I'm asking for the facts. What led you to believe I'm out of touch and no longer capable of doing my job?

I don't know...I wouldn't say I'm questioning your knowledge and understanding of trucking. Maybe it's just semantics but I've long held the belief that you are one of the most well versed people I know in the trucking industry. Maybe I don't do a good enough job of communicating it regularly but I maintain that this website, built by you, is packed with knowledge and one of my primary tools in helping me grow in my career. That's all thanks to you. I'm also aware that many many others besides myself have hugely benefited from the knowledge and tools on this site. So no, I'm not questioning your ability to do your life's work.

I said:

I don't want to insult your intelligence but I have to wonder if you've just been out of a truck for so long you don't realize what it's really like to drive for the largest carriers these days.

Again, maybe not the best way for me to put it, but I'm not questioning your knowledge. I'm questioning if you know what it feels like to have lane mitigation sensors beeping and flashing at you constantly while driving despite you doing nothing wrong, having the truck slamming on the brakes for anything from shadows to vehicles exiting the highway next to you, sitting on hold for an hour just to ask your dispatcher a simple question, having safety call you because you dared go 68 down a hill marked 80 mph, and in general having much more strict and seemingly arbitrary "safety" decisions and protocols despite being paid exactly the same or less than anywhere else you could work. I have no regrets about starting my career at a mega, but I most likely won't be returning to one any time soon.

If I could sum up the experience in one word, it would be "impersonal." I don't like being in a position where the people making decisions that greatly affect my day to day life in the truck are inaccessible. I've also pointed out the safety departments specifically because the last time I lost my job and the only time I've lost my job for anything safety related, the safety department did not even have the courtesy to talk to me directly about it. In typical corporate fashion they forced my terminal manager to fire me despite him protesting two separate times to them and offering them other solutions. This wasn't even a gigantic company but rather a company with around 1,000 trucks. I'm not even going to argue that I didn't fully deserve to be fired. I did something dumb. But everywhere else I've worked that wasn't a gigantic mega corporation had safety departments and upper management that were accessible and approachable. After that event, I decided I wouldn't work for another large company like that, that would make a sudden rash decision with serious negative implications for my career without so much as a conversation and without considering other factors like the fact that I had consistently held a near perfect safety score my entire employment with them. I have never even been so much as written up at any company I've ever worked for and I've always held excellent safety scores at every trucking company I've been at. I was also highly productive and had just successfully trained my first student who I know for a fact became a productive and successful driver at that company.

Ok, so one large company fired me for something I even admitted myself was a fireable offense but they didn't give me a phone call. Big whoop. I wasn't the only person I know fired from this company. A friend of mine I talk to daily was also fired shortly before this for an extremely trivial matter. After filing a worker's comp claim at this company for an injury at work, it was discovered that he had completely accidentally not disclosed a previous worker's comp claim from a previous company. The reason it wasn't disclosed? He had no idea the previous company had even filed a claim because of the trivial nature of the injury and the fact he didn't seek treatment for it. So our company decided to fire him for this. Sure, I understand their reasons. But it was ridiculous and once again all about protecting the company and treating employees like they're expendable because at the end of the day, large corporations don't see employees as people. They see them as "assets" or "resources." I knew other people who got let go from this company but I think you get the idea.

(continued...)

So I'm asking for the facts. What led you to believe I'm out of touch and no longer capable of doing my job?

What led me to question that you might be a bit out of touch is simply the way you seem to always defend the large corporations without admitting their downfalls.

Old School pointed out:

Brett made a remark that we can't ignore when he said this...

I aim to help people understand the trucking industry and support them throughout that first year.

Brett feels strongly that this is his mission. It is the purpose of the website. That's why he strongly encourages getting started with the mega carriers. That's where it is generally the "best practice" at starting your trucking career.

I agree and I think that maybe that has been the piece I was missing all along.

I've said my peace and this has been a good debate but this is the point where I'm going to go ahead and bow out of the discussion. I have absolutely no ill will toward anyone in this thread and I hope I've not crossed any lines when it comes to the respect aspect of our discussions. Brett I sincerely hope you continue your work for a long time and I absolutely appreciate the time and effort you've put into helping people entering the industry and even those who have been in the industry for a bit, and thank you for allowing me to be a part of your work on this forum. (Yes I'm sticking around, just leaving this thread alone now.)

I'm still genuinely curious as to why, not too long ago, Brett Said

I can say this: your attitude is much appreciated by some. In fact, the higher-ups could never pull off this caper if there weren't enough workers like yourself.

I've got news for any men who think this way. It is not ok to allow another man to take advantage of you.

It's not ok for another man to steal the fruits of your labor and force your kids to grow up with very little. Men are meant to be fighters. We're providers and protectors. Stand up and be men and fight!

But in this industry, you're supposed to shut up and take it because that's how the industry is or it makes it hard for the company if they have to pay you for the work you do... Won't someone think of the corporation? I'm still waiting to be told the difference.

As old school pointed out

Davy, you blame the small percentage of people consistently getting bonuses on corporate malfeasance and theft. Those are the words you and Banks are throwing around.

I do consider it theft to not pay for all miles driven if you have a cpm pay structure, but I don't consider not paying bonuses theft because it's a bonus, not a wage.

If I pay you to paint a room at the rate of $100 per wall and you do it and ask for your pay, is it ok if I hand you $300 because nobody is going to see the 4th wall and you were already here doing it anyway. And my excuse is "that's painting and that's how it's always been, pick battles you can win. You made 300 dollars in an hour to paint the room, doesn't matter what we agreed to that's a fair amount. Painting doesn't leave a lot of room for profits, that's all I can pay"... Who would be ok with that?

I've been on a bunch of job interviews in my life and I've never asked "do you have enough profiles to pay me for my work".

It's not a crazy request.

That's a great example Banks!

Here's why I like it. The outrageously big trucking company I work for assigns me loads and let's me know how much they will pay me for them.

Let's say they send me from small town Louisiana to small town Connecticut. They then tell me we are going to pay you X amount for 1,398 miles. Okay, I know where I'm going and I know how much I'm getting paid. It's like a contract amount to deliver the goods.

After it's all said and done, I discover I actually drove 1,438 miles. Did the company steal from me?

I say no. They told me what we were doing, and they gave me the price. They have never treated me in the manner you laid out. I've agreed to their HHG miles just like the customer did. We all had a contract like agreement.

Now, I might consider it theft if they were charging the customer more miles than they are paying the driver. I happen to know that our customers set the mileage on the loads I haul. Everybody is on the same page and everybody agrees on the price. I can't consider that as theft.

I'm well aware that it's a loosing battle, and that dry van doesn't pay as much. I do regularly attain the bonus. My point is that it is indeed wage theft as Banks points out.

Both OS and Brett make my point for me. As they pointed out, in order to make more money, working dry van at a mega isn't going to cover it. It works well for us in the beginning, but as we grow, our needs change.

In my post and rebuttals, I never stated nor implied that I'm not content with my salary. It doesn't matter how much you make, if a company is systemically robbing you, they are. Basically I've pointed that out and I think by this point we all acknowledge that it's rampant in this industry.

Brett, I don't see that I've criticized your approach at all. I do regret if you interpreted my rant as that. I often agree with your points on most topics, and specifically agree with many of your points on unions and most definitely on cpm.

OS, clearly I do everything in my power to maximize my earnings potential. I think that's pretty clear in what I've posted. In fact, I reiterated several things I do to ensure that I maximize that earnings potential.

The reason that I dived into such specifics and detail is to provide data that systemic malfeasance is occurring. That's generally how debates are conducted.

Once again, I immensely respect you guys, and I may seem like the odd conspiracy guy howling at the moon.

When I'm tired of putting up with the bs that I do in my division, or I decide i want to make more money, or change my circumstances, I will do so. For now, the flexibility that I have works for me and is more of a priority than overall salary. But that doesn't mean I'll sit by and just allow corporate geed and wage theft to occur. I fight it in every opportunity that I can.

The outrageously big trucking company I work for assigns me loads and let's me know how much they will pay me for them.

That's your experience and as you've stated it's not the norm. You're on a dedicated account that works differently than most in the OTR field. Same as you, my experience is to get paid for every mile I drive (on route or detoured) and for every task I complete, but I know that's not the norm. I'm talking about your everyday driver that gets forced dispatched all over the place and has no idea what they're doing next week.

After it's all said and done, I discover I actually drove 1,438 miles. Did the company steal from me?

How often does that happen for your everyday OTR driver? I'd wager not often. If I remember correctly, it was Packrat that brought this up initially. If it was him, he said he's come out ahead on mileage pay a handful of times and it was miniscule, compared to how often the company comes out ahead. I'll see if I can find it when I have a chance.

Now, I might consider it theft if they were charging the customer more miles than they are paying the driver.

That's not my problem. What you're charging for a service has nothing to do with my pay rate. If I'm being paid CPM , I expect to be paid for every mile I'm dispatched. I'm an employee, not an owner. Accepting to be paid for less miles is a business expense. If I work in an office and the computers are down, can they not pay me because I got nothing done? Of course not. I'm there like I'm supposed to be and I'm compensated as such.

If I'm in construction and the owner of the building and the contractor agree on a price below market value, does that mean I should be paid less or for just some of my work? No. I agreed to do a job for a specific wage.

In turn if the customer agrees to pay a price 10 times the market rate, I should still get the wage we agreed to and the rest is the spoils and fruits of the contractor that negotiated it and has a lot invested in the business.

Found it

2022 numbers for me there:

110,345 paid miles

123,447 actual miles driven

I've never paid attention to gross pay, only net. I saw almost $59K over 276 days driving.

99.4% of the trips I was underpaid anywhere from 6% to 13% of the actual miles. A trip could be from one side of Kansas to the other on I-70 (423 miles) and it was a given that I would get paid for 378 miles. This was every trip losing a minimum of 6 to 13%. Some trip were worse.

Found it

2022 numbers for me there:

110,345 paid miles

123,447 actual miles driven

I've never paid attention to gross pay, only net. I saw almost $59K over 276 days driving.

99.4% of the trips I was underpaid anywhere from 6% to 13% of the actual miles. A trip could be from one side of Kansas to the other on I-70 (423 miles) and it was a given that I would get paid for 378 miles. This was every trip losing a minimum of 6 to 13%. Some trip were worse.

This happens to me and most CPM drivers. Like Banks said, companies are able to get the actual mileage much more precise, but why should they change when the discrepancy is continually in their favor? When I get an assignment, it tells me that the miles are, say 948. Then when I program the destination into my company provided navigation program, I will get something different, like 984 miles. Which is more accurate? The higher number, 100% of the time. Which number will my paid be based on? The lower number, 100% of the time. So the companies have the more accurate technology on their own ELD navigation program. THINK about how much money is involved in this “in plain sight” skimming scheme.

In the example cited, the difference is 13,102 miles. Multiply this by .55 CPM and the total is a whopping $7,206!!! Let’s just say my numbers are half of that, $3,603. If my company has 300 drivers, the annual savings is: $1,080,900. It is no wonder why the companies are so fond of the HHG method. It’s a multi-million dollar way to deceive and cheat the drivers. I do agree with Brett and the others who point out the practicality of the CPM method. But I also agree with Banks that it would be easy to make it more fair and accurate. But the “drivers” are not really in the driver’s seat on this, are they?