Western Express Lease Purchase....thoughts???

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1) Never "buy yourself a job". In other words, don't start a business where you're only going to make what you would have made as an employee doing that job. Any driver with two or three years experience can make $55,000 or more without owning a truck.

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I would never do it either, but I can sort of understand why it might be appealing to someone. The independence or freedom factor... the freedom to pick the loads you want, the freedom to work when you want, etc... to me, its kind of like owning a house. I have "owned" a home for many years but I think it is b.s. that home ownership is a great investment... in fact, according to my figures, in the long run we would be better off renting. When you add up all the additional expenses you take on as an "owner" you end up worse off than if you had taken that amount of money and invested it wisely otherwise. The only good reason I see for "owning" a home is that it gives you some freedom that you wouldn't have as a renter... to decorate (or not) as you like, to have pets as you like, etc... This is how my wife talked me into buying our first house... she wanted these things. ( I say "owning" a home because it's never really yours... it's the banks while you still have a mortgage... and ultimately it's the governments because if you stop making payments to them... property taxes... they will evict you)

Regarding the article, as I read it, owner operators, on average, earn a little more than the average company driver. Is the "freedom" and a little extra money worth the extra hassles of owning? Whatever floats your boat, I guess

"Never Buy Yourself a Job"?... that's the kind advice someone receives from a person that is usually saying.. "would you like fries with that"? or "why own your own business.... sounds too risky". Its kind of shameful that a country that was built on ingenuity and pride of ownership has become so weakened that now we say such things like a bunch of lost wet kittens. The Greatest Generation said things like "if its hard to do, its probably worth the effort", many of the new generation says things like, "its too hard and I'm too tired to want to have to think about it". I have never seen so many work-phobic people bash a sector of this industry that so many know so little about.

I guess I am above average. When I was a lease OP I made 68k a year.

Now I am a company driver. Last year, after a full 12 months I made a little over 61k as a company driver.

Less than 8k between a company driver and a lease driver. Simply not worth it.

Now throw in the cost of health insurance. 300 to 500 a month that owner/lease ops will pay every month. And that is IF they can find health insurance at all.

So for a summary. As a company drive I make more than a above average owner/lease OP and have company provided insurance. And all that as a company driver.

The risk/reward factor leans way towards the risk side.

David, you've obviously taken a lot of time going through this thread to respond to the various points you disagree with, and so passionately at that. I can only assume you are an o/o or lease operator yourself, am I correct? If so, and if you feel so inclined, could you provide some specifics about your business strategies which have allowed you to be successful at it? Obstacles you have had to overcome and how? Financial numbers would be great too, but I understand if you're not willing to share that.

Now this should get interesting, since David is an employee of a trucking company who receives a W-2 at the end of the year! It appears he thinks you guys should take all the risks while he receives his weekly compensation for convincing you what "wet kittens" you are for not taking on the risks of a lease!

David, you've obviously taken a lot of time going through this thread to respond to the various points you disagree with, and so passionately at that. I can only assume you are an o/o or lease operator yourself, am I correct? If so, and if you feel so inclined, could you provide some specifics about your business strategies which have allowed you to be successful at it? Obstacles you have had to overcome and how? Financial numbers would be great too, but I understand if you're not willing to share that.

Grew up as a son and grandson to owner ops.... its just in my blood as a 3rd generation. I don't disagree with anyone's points, just believe that there is another side to it that is often too easily dismissed. I feel very passionately about this side of the business because its all I've ever done and I hear too many half-truths passed from people that have never even leased or owned a truck. I could tell you the risks and reasons for not being a heart surgeon, but since I've never done it OR done it well, I would technically be considered a less than reliable source of information.

Owning or running several businesses over the years, I have a found that almost every one of them have the same basic pillars even if they are in different kinds of industries. 1. Learn the business, 2. Plan 3. Develop goals. Learning the business, or lack of understanding your business, is the number one element that Forbe's Magazine said caused 8 out of 10 business in America to fail in 2013. Forbe's hypothesis was simple, if you are good at something but don't apply it well, you will most likely fail. As an Owner Op, you are the CEO and Workforce of your business.... something a little rare in large businesses, but quite common in small business. Imagine a company with great workers, but no leader to make decisions.... or a great leader making decisions, but no one actually working.... neither is a model for success. Too many guys think having an excellent driving record and low CSA score entitles them to be a good owner.... just not true... it just means that are a good driver.

Before making any BIG decisions, do your homework. Not on what people say, but on the number that make up the business like you are doing now. 98% of companies offer Lease-Lease programs with a Balloon Payment which are not my cup of tea. These are basically "rental" programs with no ownership potential no matter how you cut it. Look for a company that is offering trucks "for sale" through a real lease to own program. No Money Down, No Balloon Payment, No Inflated Pricing are pretty simple terms, but a little more difficult to determine if they are actually true or not. Find the ACTUAL market value of the truck you are thinking about, not the cheapest one you find or the most expensive, just the average market price. Then compare it to what the company is offering it for. If its a 2012 Freightliner Cascadia, the market price is approximately $65,000 - $75,000. So if the program is 156 payments of $450.00 with NO payoff at the end, you are on the right track. If the company tells you its 260 payments of $450.00 you are paying twice the market value.... run away!

Start planning your daily events much like a corporation would. How much money you are expecting to make and put pen to paper and find out how many miles, fuel consumption, rate per mile, tractor cost, maintenance cost, and then determine if your expectation of earnings and number of miles to produce are practical and possible. Too many people wake up in the morning and just do what they have always done like the humans we are, we like routine. The best answer is start working on a game plan for a different or slightly altered routine. Instead of rates and miles, simplify by focusing on REVENUE PER DAY. Whether you are operating on a rate per mile or percentage basis, a Revenue Per Day formula is always best. My target range is $450 to $550 per day after fuel expenses. On a standard 5.5 day work week I can expect approximately $2500 to $2700 in earnings after my variable expenses are covered. Then deduct my truck payment to get my actual take home. The secret, too many people spend so much time focusing on miles, they miss the forest for the trees. Stay true to the formula Revenue Per Day.

Goals are something that make or break a business. Planning is key, but meeting or exceeding goals are like the fuel in the drag car. It has the potential to go somewhere, but pretty much worthless if nothing propels it, the same way diets fail because we run out of "Instructions" to follow when the diet is over. Start writing down what your expectations are, like, I plan to take home a minimum of $300.00 per day for each day I'm over the road; I plan to be home every 8 days for family time; I plan to save at least $1000.00 per month toward my retirement; I plan to pay myself $500.00 per week as a salary from my operating account; etc., etc. Before anyone loses their marbles, I said pay myself $500.00 per week to offset personal income taxes from business income. You can pay yourself what ever you want, but remember the more you pay yourself the more you owe.

Above all, love what you do or do something else.

Anything more specific? Let me know. Thanks for asking!

Now this should get interesting, since David is an employee of a trucking company who receives a W-2 at the end of the year! It appears he thinks you guys should take all the risks while he receives his weekly compensation for convincing you what "wet kittens" you are for not taking on the risks of a lease!

I'm confused Old School... is it me you don't like or truck leases or BOTH? For someone that owned their own business, you seem pretty Anti-Business and almost Anti-American for telling people they should just stay in the box and keep their mouth shut. Not one time have I told anyone that Leasing was a BETTER option, or try to convince anyone to lease a truck... not once! But, I have been steadfast that leasing is not the evil that you keep making it out to be. Leasing for the 100th time is NOT FOR EVERYONE, and an average guy should NOT ATTEMPT (like a warning ad on a cigarette box). Having a good CSA and MVR makes you a good driver, but not a good business owner. The same way that an experienced lease driver says "I know what I'm doing I've leased before"..... is pretty much saying "I wasn't good at it before therefore I will continue to do it the same way again and again, and probably fail again."

Owning a business is universal whether its trucks, trains, automobiles or Microsoft. You have to have a plan, execute the plan, set goals, execute your goals, stat diverse and love what you do. In this case you are the CEO and Workforce when planning to be an O/O, that is the defining difference. Again, I don't tell others how to perform heart surgery because I'm not a heart surgeon. You owned a business outside of trucking and have a CDL which makes you an expert of all leasing programs the same way that I own a home and have thinning hair therefore I must be Donald Trump.

Old School, I just wish that you would agree that there is a life outside of being a company driver. As a previous business owner, I would have a hard time believing that you really believe that all leases are created for failure and anyone that does it will fail.

Old School, I just wish that you would agree that there is a life outside of being a company driver

Why do you wish that? What do you care what he thinks or what anyone else thinks about leasing for that matter? Oh yeah, to justify leasing or owning a truck as being a sound business venture because that's how you identify yourself and your ancestors. Well thank God your ancestors weren't telegraph operators or you'd be begging us to acknowledge that as a sound business to go into instead I guess.

And you've waaaaay underestimated the business experience and acumen that Old School has. You're far from in the same league. You're a salesman is what you are. You have a thousand catch phrases and a bunch of bizarre, meaningless statistics that nobody with an ounce of true business sense would consider legit in any way like:

if you can't do it yourself, tell others about how bad it is!

you seem pretty Anti-Business and almost Anti-American for telling people they should just stay in the box and keep their mouth shut

Seriously? The ole "you don't love America if you don't agree with me" cr*p. Unbelievable.

I feel very passionately about this side of the business because its all I've ever done

Well I've done a whole h*ll of a lot more than drive a truck and in fact I've owned and operated several different businesses over the years myself. I'm able to recognize a dying business model with bad economics. How about you? How many owner operators are there on the road today compared with 50 years ago and how do you explain the decline?

In 20 plus years of producing some of the top lease purchase operators

And what does that mean? You 'produced' some of the top lease purchase operators? Are you leasing a truck or are you selling people on leasing a truck?

David, I'm sure you're an earnest and possibly sincere young man, but this latest batch of posts is more than a little embarrassing. Not only do you sound like you just got out of a Tony Robbins seminar and pounded a couple of energy drinks, but you managed to insult a couple of guys who are as pro-business, pro-hard work, and likely pro-American (though they don't wear it on their sleeves) as anyone you'd care to meet.

I'm a rookie lease operator. I made the decision to go that route after months of research and risk analysis, recognizing all along that my risks are very low compared to most folks that come to this forum. I have no debt, my family has other income sufficient to cover the basic needs of life, and I can find another job that pays as well or better than trucking if I fail. That's what 30 years of experience in marketing, sales, legal work, and management has given me - the luxury of taking a calculated risk.

Not everyone who comes here can really afford to take such a risk, and some may not have all the tools to go about calculating the risk to themselves and their families. We have a few folks here who have been knocked around a bit and are at a point in life where they really want and need to have a steady income. Beginning in trucking has plenty of risk involved without adding the risk of a lease program to the mix.

But these are the very folks who are probably biting on the bait you've been putting out there in this forum. If I remember correctly, you admitted you've already gotten a half dozen sales out of this thread. You're probably breaking your arm patting yourself on the back for coming up with a twist on the social media marketing craze. Why tweet when you can go straight to the pool of prospects you need to make yourself successful and reel some of them in with your emotion-based pitch?

And that's all your posts are : emotional appeals to make sales. The fact that more experienced people stir the pot with their reasonable questions and objections only helps you. The technique is not new, but the medium for delivering it is.

I don't run this site, but if I did, I would either ask for a cut of the spiffs you're getting for signing leases, or delete your posts.

So, just for fun, here are my questions for you, David:

1. Do you (not your daddy or granddaddy) have a CDL-A? If so, how many miles have you safely operated a truck under this lease-purchase program, and how much money have you made? If not, why aren't you in trucking school so you can get rich with your lease-purchase program?

2. How much do you make from each lease you sign? (Base + bonus / closed sales would be best.)

3. How many leads have you generated with this thread? How many of those have you closed? How many of those are still with the program?

Thanks in advance for your prompt responses,

Bud

P.S. The Harvard law ploy was good. Be sure not to bring up the median salary for a Harvard law grad 10 or 20 years down the line vs. the median salary for an O/O at that same point in time.

P.P.S. My dad, grandpa, great-grandpa, and the generations before that were farmers. My dad rented the farm - seems he couldn't raise a family of five on 172 acres of prime Iowa farmland the same way his dad and granddad did. I wonder if there's any parallel with the kind of living your dad and granddad made as O/Os as compared to the changed market conditions of today....

David, that was not hard truth, that was just fun with statistics. If you really want to lay down some hard truths, please provide us all with the the entire data set for lease operators. I want to know the number of people in the data set, where they all fall in the salary range, the static date or date range the the data is pulled from, how the data is collected and by whom (because that can definitely influence the type and data collected). I would also want to know years of experience for the "CDL Holders" as well as whether data was gathered as they left leasing as to their net gain or loss on their income including the potential sale of the rig. This is only a small slice of what I would consider as "Hard Truth", all the other commentary is just fluff.

I want to know the P&L(profit and loss) statements at month 3.month 6 and month 9 and month 12.i want to see hard numbers. Not the subjective percentages. I want to see the hard numbers of the gross vs net income and the fixed and variable cost of the most successful and the worse lease OP to go through your lease program you have.......

Oh wait you can't produce those because it's against the law to show people's financial statements. Breech of trust and major prison time.

And since you can not legally produce those numbers you can say anything you want about the lease system you have.

You see the thing is I could careless about the numbers. I have leased before. I was successful at it. I did not go broke. But I also know the hard work involved to make it work the right way.

It's very risky and frankly irresponsible to allow new people to lease a truck and they barely know how to drive a truck.

So throw all the pretty stats up you want but real world application is a very different and difficult beast to handle.