Western Express Lease Purchase....thoughts???

I want to know the P&L(profit and loss) statements at month 3.month 6 and month 9 and month 12.i want to see hard numbers. Not the subjective percentages. I want to see the hard numbers of the gross vs net income and the fixed and variable cost of the most successful and the worse lease OP to go through your lease program you have.......

Oh wait you can't produce those because it's against the law to show people's financial statements. Breech of trust and major prison time.

And since you can not legally produce those numbers you can say anything you want about the lease system you have.

You see the thing is I could careless about the numbers. I have leased before. I was successful at it. I did not go broke. But I also know the hard work involved to make it work the right way.

It's very risky and frankly irresponsible to allow new people to lease a truck and they barely know how to drive a truck.

So throw all the pretty stats up you want but real world application is a very different and difficult beast to handle.

Got damn why don't guys leave the F*cking guy alone. Seems typical around here when one person goes in on someone the rest of you ****ing followers, follow.. and in turn think of the most disrespectful things cause everyone else is doing it, you guys sound so cool! Maybe he is making money so the F*CK WHAT!! Mind your own damn business. I never met so many damn super heroes in one setting.

Got damn why don't guys leave the F*cking guy alone. Seems typical around here when one person goes in on someone the rest of you ****ing followers, follow.. and in turn think of the most disrespectful things cause everyone else is doing it, you guys sound so cool! Maybe he is making money so the F*CK WHAT!! Mind your own damn business. I never met so many damn super heroes in one setting.

The internet is vast and you don't have to be in this section of it.

People want proof but all they are getting is the salesman run around.

I would love a current lease op or O/O to come in and show it all. The Daniel B of lease ops? With finances, time, repairs, etc. But they don't. They are either too busy running their finances into the ground or they don't exist.

No salesman deserves to make one cent off this site by fleecing its users.

Can we vote for that account to be removed unless they start posting something that isn't an extended sales pitch?

I would love a current lease op or O/O to come in and show it all. The Daniel B of lease ops? With finances, time, repairs, etc. But they don't. They are either too busy running their finances into the ground or they don't exist.

No salesman deserves to make one cent off this site by fleecing its users.

Can we vote for that account to be removed unless they start posting something that isn't an extended sales pitch?

The world is full of salespeople. The things he has said to try to sell leasing to people are the same thing drivers will hear from anyone selling leases. By having this conversation publicly we're able to point out to those who aren't familiar with the prospect of leasing just how disingenuous this fella is being. He isn't presenting any real-world numbers that are helpful. He's calling people "anti-American" if they don't think leasing a truck is a good idea. He's comparing being a Harvard Law Grad to being an owner operator. He's giving us some unsubstantiated story about how his dad and his grandad were owner operators and it's in his blood.

Good salespeople can sell anything to anyone. They'll say anything to make it seem like the streets in their neighborhood are paved with gold and that they care deeply about the fact that you're 'missing out on it' by not buying in. But as you can see, when you press them for the important data you need to make a good business decision or question his own experience level and trustworthiness he quietly slips back into the shadows with nothing to offer.

I don't want new drivers coming face to face with someone selling leasing as an opportunity without being able to give them the other side of it.

No salesman deserves to make one cent off this site by fleecing its users.

Unfortunately that's how most salesmen make most of their money. And what they say is true - there's a sucker born every minute. There's nothing you can do to make everyone agree that leasing is a bad business to get into because it's almost all risk and no reward. Some people love taking risks and others love doing what they're told they shouldn't do. But at least we're being given the chance to present our side of the argument and explain why we think leasing is a bad idea. Then people can make their own decisions after hearing both sides of it. That's all I want to do - present both sides of it.

Got damn why don't guys leave the F*cking guy alone. Seems typical around here when one person goes in on someone the rest of you ****ing followers, follow.. and in turn think of the most disrespectful things cause everyone else is doing it, you guys sound so cool! Maybe he is making money so the F*CK WHAT!! Mind your own damn business. I never met so many damn super heroes in one setting.

At the moment I'd like to present our friend Jimmy P with the opportunity to enlighten us all. Somehow he has the nerve to come in here cussing us up and down and splashing filth all over our forum for presenting our side of the story as if we're all just the most awful people on the planet. So here we are Jimmy P.....we're all ears. Why don't you teach us about the trucking industry a little bit and shed some light on this whole leasing thing. Maybe you're so amazing that we're not worthy of your presence here but I'm hoping you'll shed some light on our dark ignorance.

Go head Jimmy P. Present your case........if you have one.

I love all you guys

I'm not interested in being an L/O or O/O... I've got a family and I wouldn't want all the extra responsibilities that owning a truck would entail... and I've got a good job that gets me home everyday, anyway... so I have no dog in this fight. But, I have followed the experiences of several L/O's and O/O's via internet forums... here and elsewhere... and I know that some are really enjoying it and are doing fine financially. In addition, I spoke with a Schneider recruiter while in school... and he said that Schneider L/O's average 70k, net... and top earners make over 90k. So, one question I have for Brett and Old School and others here who say that owning/leasing is a dead in the water proposition... you say that these companies are lying when they claim that, with hard work and smarts, you will earn more than company drivers as a LO/OO... well, then doesn't that make these companies a bunch of lying, immoral scumbags? Why are you not going after these companies, that take advantage of and financially ruin the unsuspecting, with a vengeance? You sell these companies up as great places to work, on the one hand, then portray them as lying, immoral scumbags on the other... which is it?

you say that these companies are lying when they claim that, with hard work and smarts, you will earn more than company drivers as a LO/OO

Indy, when you are claiming what we say you really should find a quote, and don't just put some vague words in our mouths.

What we claim is that the risks are extremely high, and every once in a while someone will manage to squeak by for a little while and avoid the laws of economics, therefore it seems like they are really making some good money. But the averages speak another story that is not touted by the sales people. A sales person will gladly pick and choose their statistics to support their case, and statistics are often times easily manipulated to make them support your case

We also tell you guys all the time that you can't judge a company by it's recruiters. They make all kind of claims.

I think it is unfortunate that these companies will make some of the claims they do, but if you look at it carefully it is usually a game of semantics. That is why even with David here we have discussed in the past about the difference in revenues and actual earnings. And he basically agreed with us that most drivers don't understand the difference between the two. That is where the trick is played on the unsuspecting driver. He has a very high cash flow, which makes it seem like he's making a lot more money, but if he's doing well at it he is really basically only doing a slight bit better than the company driver.

We don't expect any one in here to just follow our advice without looking into it themselves, but we do feel an obligation to help folks brand new to all this avoid some of the major pitfalls that are out there.

Old School, First, I think your response started with a silly nitpick… Recruiters are the face of the company to a prospective driver. That guy is out there doing and saying just what the higher-ups want… Recruiters are who and what the company wants you, the prospective driver, to judge the company by… and you are clearly maintaining that David is willfully misleading people… a.k.a., lying. My question remains.

As I've said before... If you guys would just simplify the message to ..."Leasing or owning is a bad idea for an inexperienced driver. It can work for someone that has some experience in the industry, but too risky for someone just starting out.." there would be no problem... I think that even David would agree with that message.

David, sorry I couldn't really participate in this discussion yesterday, I was driving and hard pressed to get where I was supposed to be by the end of the day. I actually always enjoy our exchanges of ideas when you are in here. You are a passionate guy, and I actually like that even if we disagree.

I'm confused Old School... is it me you don't like or truck leases or BOTH?

I have no antipathy toward you David, nor would I dislike truck leasing if I could get it to make sense economically for the driver. It just doesn't add up when I do the calculations, and I have tried my best to see the advantages of it. As a viable business plan it makes no sense to me. For the effort, the capital, and the risks involved there are lots of ways a person could do much better with their time and money.

Not one time have I told anyone that Leasing was a BETTER option, or try to convince anyone to lease a truck... not once!

Well, I certainly would like to hear from you just what it is that you have been doing in here. It sure seemed to me like that was what you were doing, but maybe I misunderstood. I really don't know what it is that you are saying, but it comes awful close to trying to convince people to lease a truck to me.

David, as a moderator in this forum I consider myself the lowest man on the totem pole, sort of a "Janitor" if you will. I will jump in these conversations at times when I see a little bit of a mess that needs to be cleaned up. We have a lot of traffic in here and some of the folks that participate have a little B.S. on their boots and they kind of leave a little mess behind them. I will jump in and try to clean up the mess so that other folks later on won't get confused when they come across the conversation at a later date. Then some times we have folks that come in here who not only track a little bit of it in on their boots, but they are pushing a whole wheel barrow full of it, and spreading it around like it's golden stardust! Unfortunately at times, that "organic fertilizer" has been painted up so well that it looks like nice green grass to the unsuspecting. So, forgive me if it seems like I'm always following up with something you don't appreciate, but I've got a job to do.

As I've said before... If you guys would just simplify the message to ..."Leasing or owning is a bad idea for an inexperienced driver. It can work for someone that has some experience in the industry, but too risky for someone just starting out.." there would be no problem... I think that even David would agree with that message.

Indy, I'm sure David would agree with that, but I would not. It doesn't make sense to me no matter how I crunch the numbers. I could easily be doing a truck lease if I wanted to. The folks at my company have tried to get me to do it. They tell me my record with them indicates that I would be making a lot more money if I were leasing a truck. And, you know what Indy, it is tempting. You get a nice new truck, you possibly have a few more choices on your loads, etc, etc,..

I can't get past the numbers - they don't add up to be a good sound investment of time, money, and effort. I'm making good solid money as a company driver with absolutely zero financial risk. The skin I have in the game is my understanding of how to do this job successfully, and the company takes on all the other risks. It is a business plan that works well for both of us because they know and trust me to take care of my business, and I know and trust them to keep me moving. That is the way we both make good on this business arrangement. If I were leasing we would both still be doing well but I would be taking on all the risks. That is not good for the driver, experienced or not.