Trucker Pay Has Fallen When Adjusted For Inflation

Unions cannot begin to solve the problem because the problem THEY were developed to address doesn't even exist any more

Really? Because that's not at all the impression I was under. I was under the impression that unions were around to prevent tyrants running some of our large corporations from abusing the workers. For instance, if one billionaire decided he should make $570 million this year while 30,000 people are paid poverty wages that would be considered an injustice by any human with even an ounce of logic, compassion, and reason. Or say some of the corporate elite were informed about a substance being deadly to humans but they decided to keep it a secret so they could make their billions while killing hundreds of thousands of people at the same time....maybe like asbestos? Doesn't seem like that type of problem will ever disappear. Or maybe some corporate bigwig, driven by profit and vanity, would decide to build a massive project in a way that was unnecessarily dangerous and kill a ton of workers like maybe the Empire State Building or the Hoover Dam? Doesn't seem to me like we'll ever eliminate that problem.

Or what about on a large scale? Like what if the data showed that American corporations had the largest amount of cash on their books and their highest profit levels in 75 years but decided they would pay out the lowest percentage of those profits to labor they've paid in the past 75 years anyhow? Is that the direction we should be going in?

Do these sound like logical, healthy situations to you that should be left alone? Do you think one man should amass tens of billions while paying his workers poverty-level wages? Do you think American corporations should be amassing giant hordes of cash and yet pay very little of it to the workers that built the products that produced that profit?

That's what unions are for....to make sure workers are treated fairly and are given their fair share.

The thing we've apparently lost site of is the fact that a corporation is not a person. You should not have trillions of dollars sitting in overseas bank accounts with the name of these corporation on it while 39% of Americans are living in whole or in part off Government money. That's ridiculous! Can't you recognize that? Can't you see how dangerous and unhelpful that is?

And to anyone who thinks unions are responsible for driving corporations overseas I ask you this - what were the top 12 executives making at these companies that supposedly could no longer compete and had to move overseas? I'll clue you in....they were all making millions or even tens of millions every year. So the corporation could afford $100 million for the top 12 people but had to move to Mexico because they couldn't afford to pay the workers anymore, right? And what happened when they moved to Mexico? The corporation and those same executives amassed even greater riches while American workers went on unemployment.

So when a company can no longer pay its executives hundreds of millions of dollars then maybe wages should come down. But that isn't how American corporations are operating today. Executive salaries continue to rise today at their fastest level in history, corporate profits are at an all time high, and wages are at an all time low but you clowns are brainwashed into thinking we don't need unions to protect the workers. That's exactly what they want the sheep to think. They want everyone to shut up, do what your told, take what we give you, and don't question anything....exactly like you guys are saying.

So congratulations. You've defended the plight of the the mega-rich perfectly while insuring American workers continue to sink further into poverty. The corporate titans couldn't have done it better themselves.

it was (still is?) call Technocracy, Inc. and was founded by an economist named Howard Scott.

I'm looking into this now....hopefully it will make for more interesting reading

Wow! A great back and forth debate and civil.

Atlas Shrugged is one of the best books I've ever read. Brett, I hope you enjoy it. It is much better than the movie series.

While I don't have all the answers, I pose the following questions;

1. Which class of people is without greed? We have 2nd & 3rd generations receiving welfare and some (not all) have no desire to work.

2. If we are willing to accept some greed and corruption on the part of union leaders, supposedly in the name of the greater good, is it such a stretch to believe not all corporate leaders are evil and greedy?

3. Who gets to decide how much is too much? If my neighbor suddenly is making $10million (or $570million) what qualifies me to say that's too much?

4. Has anyone noticed that while masses bemoan the greed of corporate leaders, many of governments' impositions are rapidly killing the small businesses and the jobs that built this country into the great nation it once was? That which was meant to reign in corporate profits has made the big corporations more powerful by killing off the smaller competition.

5. And oh, by the way, aren't many stockholders of many of the largest corporations us blue-collar workers seeking maximum profits in our 401k's?

Thanks and DRIVE ON!

Brett, you act as if us masses are powerless and can only get what these evil CEOs allow us to have.

I was working for CR England. They payed me just a tiny bit and yes I am sure the owners were making a killing, just sitting on top of their piles and piles of cash while paying their slaves like me only a couple hundred a week. So guess what I did? I moved to another job and now I am the one that is rich. I did not try and go join some union that would promise to get me my Fair Share if I just give them a bunch of money.

That just aint for trucking either. I used to work in Jack in the Box making minimum wage, and that was when minimum wage was low. I did not go staging big old protests saying how I deserve $15 an hour and that government needed to Force this on Jack in the Box. Say goodbye to the dollar menu if that ever happened.

Instead I went and got me a job at Papa John's. Some days I was able to make over a hundred dollars a day. I still wanted more, so after that I went into trucking. Now I make over $200 a day. With a few more years experience heck maybe I can own my own truck and make six figures.

Bottom line, if I had joined a union, or got government involved to force a pay increase, I would still be at Jack in the Box making a couple hundred dollars a week. Never would I dare to leave and risk losing my Union Seniority. The whole time I would just be telling everyone how great unions and big brother government is, and how evil and mean those big CEOs are.

Loving this conversation! Bret you hit another pet peeve of mine, personhood. It is time to constitutionally define the rights of groups versus a individual. All groups, whether its a local church, boy scouts or exon should be treated equally under the eyes of the law. Individual rights for a human should be left intact as our constitution originally intended. A legal entity defined by a group can not be imprisoned or executed for commiting a grevious crime unlike you or me. This **** has to change.

Jopa, great post liked it. Not sure exactly what your premise is on why unions are no longer needed. Is it to prevent slavery? Secondly government debt on all levels is directly related to the confidence that bond buyers have in that governments ability to repay it. Theoretically if bond buyers confidence never wavered a government could never go in debt. I have no idea what is going on currently with bond markets BTW.

Justin, I was in the IBEW electricians union for years. Guess what? We were always contracted to do the big jobs like microchip fabrication facilities, robotics Toyota plants and others. Were they forced to choose us? No, we were the best out there and these deep pocket customers wanted it done right the first time. If you wanted to wire up a house or local store call a electrician. If you want to go big and do it right call the IBEW. Not all unions are that way. BTW read UPS stock profile and shipping volume, compare to Fed Ex, DHL and USPS. Tell me the Teamsters are killing UPS right now.

Steve will give you my 2 cents.

1. All people have greed, it's part of the human condition.

2. Most people are good. I know many business owners and a couple of powerful CEO's. All great people. There is a big difference in their managing styles though, a private vs publicly owned company. Privately owned tends to favor self interest and those intetest usually favors people you know. Publicly owned business serves a mob that you do not know. I have worked for both types and have had good/bad ones in both.

3. This will work out by nature. If I am living very well, family taken care of but my neighbors kids are starving, it is only s matter of time before I'm robbed. I can hire security but eventually that will even get to be to expensive.

4. Small business is getting destroyed by both corporations and government. I live in a small town and we are known for our mom and pop shops. Wal-mart tried to move in and the town/county denied the building permits. Our choice, we don't want to lose our mom and pops.

5. I don't understand this question.

One last thing Justin, I was in a union right out of highschool. Worked with them and they paid my wsy through college. Moved on to programming computers for mega corps and traveled everywhere making money. Then moved into office management doing even better. My union didn't make me a lazzy POS, which is a common theme I hear on these boards. My union put me through college and supported my love of working with technology.

Just read thru this thread, entirely ... wow! Very impressed with how much you all have thought about these things. Strangely, I found myself agreeing with just about everyone to some extent.