Trucker Pay Has Fallen When Adjusted For Inflation

Also, anyone wanting to get acquainted with Ayn Rand's philosophy might want to read The Fountainhead instead of Atlas Shrugged... Shorter, more readable, same basic ideas... just my opinion

One last thing before I bunk down. Noticed a lot of Rand fans here, don't get me wrong I like her work, just not all of it. The question I have, maybe just my lens not sure is, many truckers I meet, all ages, color and ethnicity seem to have something in common. It seems like we have all gone Galt for one reason or another. Just wondering if I'm the only one who has noticed.

Also, anyone wanting to get acquainted with Ayn Rand's philosophy might want to read The Fountainhead instead of Atlas Shrugged... Shorter, more readable, same basic ideas... just my opinion

Thanks for that...I'm gonna look into it.

Very impressed with how much you all have thought about these things. Strangely, I found myself agreeing with just about everyone to some extent.

That's when you know you're getting some great opinions. When everyone has something worthwhile to contribute even though we all have varying points of view. I'm also finding myself agreeing with pretty much everyone to some degree, even those directly countering my position. But that makes sense because something this complex has very few black and white answers about anything. The best solution is always a mix of various opposing viewpoints.

I enjoy these conversations immensely. Every once in a while you'd get a group of trucks running together and have a conversation like this on the CB. Man did time fly when that happened. The conversation is so deep and interesting you forget all about the schedule you're trying to keep and just enjoy the drive.

Talk of business and world economics always fascinates me.

Greed....it's at the root of just about everything going on in this crazy world. You have those that are willing to work for a fair wage. You have those that want to sit on their ass and collect free stuff that we all basically pay for, and you have those who are positioned to make millions in the executive board rooms. And of course you have those who get elected to represent us....well...I wont even go there. It's all about balance. And in this day and age you won't find much of that.

If the trucking industry is ever going to change it's going to take one of two things. Trucking companies are going to get to the point that the empty seats kill their profits, bonuses for execs dwindle, and they become desperate to do whatever it takes to fill those seats; OR; truck drivers are going to have to find a way to unite to push for changes.

At this point...neither of the two items look like they'll ever happen.

Also, anyone wanting to get acquainted with Ayn Rand's philosophy might want to read The Fountainhead instead of Atlas Shrugged... Shorter, more readable, same basic ideas... just my opinion

Actually next on my list right after reading a sci-fi by James Blish called Cities in the Sky.

And JOPA... would love to sit down and discuss world events with you over a cup of coffee some day. Bet we would have a great conversation.

Let me address each of your points one-by-one, Brett, and hopefully I m also commenting on the other posts at the same time (excellent thread, by the way - everyone's POV is legitimate in a discussion like this - no real "right or wrong")

I was under the impression that unions were around to prevent tyrants running some of our large corporations from abusing the workers.

In an idealistic sense, unions were for just the reason you stated. However, some things have a stated goal while also having a hidden agenda. There were plenty of worker complaints that needed addressing and there might have been other avenues to pursue. However, in Europe - where unions began in earnest - the newly invented philosophy of Socialism with its first cousin Communism, had exploited these concerns to a very successful effect. This new phenomenon - a "working class" (the result of the Industrial Revolution) - was not experienced in the world of subterfuge where conflicts of the owner's and worker's rights existed. The union organizers were. The unionization accomplished many of the worker's demands and so seem like a benign & benevolent solution to a social problem and for a large part they were. But the originators and organizers had more than just "worker' rights" in mind and used this movement to push their real agenda - the destruction of Capitalism. In just so happened that (as usual) the American experience was so much more unpredictable than in other places and the American worker was not interested in these ulterior motives - they just wanted a good job with decent pay NOT political upheaval, It's not the first time (nor the last) the uniqueness of the American work ethic resisted manipulation. But, those were still different times with wholly different problems. The union movement never represented more than 17% of the total work force and then in limited fields like manufacturing & mining of basic materials, construction, teamsters, things really based in urban settings (auto manufacturing) or concentrated in regional areas (coal, iron ore, etc.). The aims of the original organizers were thwarted by the American experience and supplanted by organized crime in certain fields. You'll never see the solidarity among people that existed back then because individual interests have made our American worker much more diverse and much less cohesive.

Or what about on a large scale? Like what if the data showed that American corporations had the largest amount of cash on their books and their highest profit levels in 75 years but decided they would pay out the lowest percentage of those profits to labor they've paid in the past 75 years anyhow? Is that the direction we should be going in?

This situation is really brought about by our unique tax structure. American Corporations have trillion$ offshore because there is a 35% tax rate on repatriating overseas profits in the U.S. No other country does this and so all the other nations welcome overseas profits back into the fold where that money works for the good of the whole economy. Could you imagine if China taxed the money their (government owned) businesses pull from our economy every year? The solution to this problem is to change the tax law and allow those corporation to bring that money home where it can be invested into OUR economy instead of residing off-shore. Pretty simple solution, really, to a situation that really doesn't have "evil intent" as its root. For some reason I was thinking you made this statement if reference to offshore monies - my mistake . . . **NOTE** To be continued . . . I'm at a Cosco distribution center unloading so I may not have time to finish this post . . .

Jopa

BTW, it is not my intention to "defend" any of the situations you list as being "unfair" or otherwise . . . I am simply relating information about subjects I tend to have information about . . .

Do these sound like logical, healthy situations to you that should be left alone? Do you think one man should amass tens of billions while paying his workers poverty-level wages? Do you think American corporations should be amassing giant hordes of cash and yet pay very little of it to the workers that built the products that produced that profit?

That's what unions are for....to make sure workers are treated fairly and are given their fair share.

Ah, "fairness" . . . what a subjective concept . . . who determines what is fair and by what criteria? Brett, you know yourself that you have always sought to differentiate yourself from others you worked with in the same fields - truck driving, for example. And you were rewarded by a higher rate of compensation, right? Not all industries allow for such a dramatic differentiation as, say, $570 million, but those attaining such lofty status have VERY unique qualifications. Neither you nor I will EVER be afforded such an opportunity, but some people are. Big Leagues on Steroids. Produce results in such a rairified atmosphere and the rewards are unimaginable. It wasn't too many years ago that Apple faced bankruptcy. Steve Jobs brought them back from the brink. Then when Steve Jobs died, everyone was predicting Apple's sure and quick demise as NO ONE could replace Steve Jobs. You stated it yourself, this CEO has produced an amazing profit margin (certainly not by himself, but he takes responsibility for failures and the glories of success equally). He is also one of a very FEW people making these kind of rewards. Not really typical. The Board of Directors evidently feel he deserves his just deserts and are willing to pay it to him. The stockholders are loving his results as well (the stock keeps going up). Most workers in the retail stores you mentioned are young, single people who are just starting out in their careers and they evidently are content to earn a lower wage to work for Apple. The rank and file Apple workers who work for corporate are a different animal. The production workers are mostly Asian and are glad just to have a job. The overseas manufacturing that has taken place in this industry (as well as others) is a WHOLE different discussion about "free trade" (I don't agree for a second with that BS line). So, what's fair in what circumstance is really in the eye of the beholder, n'est pas?

Jopa

The thing we've apparently lost site of is the fact that a corporation is not a person. You should not have trillions of dollars sitting in overseas bank accounts with the name of these corporation on it while 39% of Americans are living in whole or in part off Government money. That's ridiculous! Can't you recognize that? Can't you see how dangerous and unhelpful that is?

THIS was the point I was addressing regarding the taxation of off-shore profits . . .

And to anyone who thinks unions are responsible for driving corporations overseas I ask you this - what were the top 12 executives making at these companies that supposedly could no longer compete and had to move overseas? I'll clue you in....

Personally, I KNOW it was not unions that drove most companies overseas, although the high American wages often blamed are the result of unionization to some extent. The REAL culprit is the misguided concept of "free trade" - a concept promoted in business schools to bean counters and sold to Americans as a foundation belief of conservative political thinking. Bunk. If the Chinese want to manufacture (whatever), let them also CONSUME what they make. The same for the Japanese or anyone else seeking to undercut our manufacturing base. Sure, competition makes for better processes and higher quality products. Bur foreign imports SUBSIDIZED by foreign governments and foreign banks for years until that country get a foothold in our economy (read Toyota) does not represent any form of trade - free or otherwise. It represents complete dishonesty that those American businesses who gained from it practiced to the detriment of the American worker (unionized or not) But that is a different thread, not this one.

Jopa

So congratulations. You've defended the plight of the the mega-rich perfectly while insuring American workers continue to sink further into poverty. The corporate titans couldn't have done it better themselves.

So finally, as I stated earlier, I am not DEFENDING any "plights" at all. I am simply offering what information I have that maybe other don't have because i have read different sources of information that others have not. Not saying I'm right (although I suspect there is a high defree of probability that I am . . . )

. . . sorry, I couldn't resist temptation there . . .

. . . my world view is also colored by the fact that I am a Christian so I tend to place the blame for "evil" intent upon a certain fallen angel and his cohorts . . . yes, man is incurably wicked, but a lot less clever than I think most people give credit . . . now Satan, that's one clever dude!!

Jopa

Here's another point that seems to have been bypassed: once upon a time, and not all that long ago either, corporations didn't just amass huge piles of liquid wealth and sit on it. Profits were re-invested back into the company, or shared out among the workers in the form of profit-sharing or annual bonuses, often to the tune of thousands of dollars per employee. Somewhere along about the mid to late 70s, however, somebody got the bright idea that, hey, why should we give our money to the little people when we can just keep it for ourselves? And just like that, profit sharing and bonuses began to go the way of the dinosaur. Now, the only way you're going to get in on any of that is either A) work for a small family-run business or for yourself, or B) somehow find yourself among the top-level executives of a major Fortune 500 company.

There was a time in this country when corporations recognized the fact that without their workforce, not only would they have no product to sell, but also no customers to sell their product to, and they compensated their workers accordingly. This was also the time when our economy was at its strongest and most sustainable. This is not a coincidence or an accident.