HOS Violations In A Non CMV CDL Vehicle ?
Topic 6871 | Page 1
I used to own a 16 foot box truck and a Nissan NV cargo van. I did mostly local courier/expedited deliveries. I did this for 9 years before I got my CDL. I was stopped at a weigh station and was told I needed to have a log book for when I drive the truck 14000 gvw but when I drove my van I didn't need one but needed to show on duty not driving for the time in the van when I was driving my box truck. This was information obtained at a weigh station when I was stopped for inspection and asked about my log book.
CDL:
Commercial Driver's License (CDL)
A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:
- Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
- Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
I drove my personal Ford Escape suv 3000 miles round trip from Chicago to Laredo TX and back this past week, Monday thru Friday. I transported 300 lbs of Jet turbine parts for repair and returned with a rebuilt turbine Hot section for my Exhibition Race Car business which is Incorporated. I didn't fill out any HOS paper logs, ect. Did I Violate HOS Regs?
No way. You do not need a CDL to drive a SUV, no matter the use. Therefore, no log book is necessary. Ever see a 4 wheeler at a weigh station (on the scale)? 
The only logging you will need to do is for tax purposes as you surely already know.
CDL:
Commercial Driver's License (CDL)
A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:
- Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
- Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
HOS:
Hours Of Service
HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Crap, I forgot about Taxis and limos. You still don't see them on scales though.
It's sort of a trick Question, But it's the real deal, Reg 395.2 ii, sort of talks on this in reverse, ie the 150 mile rule which I exceeded, but a'm I at this point a Comercial Carrier? I had the paperwork / reciept to prove ownership, $8500 parts to my corporation. Last year when trying to get my Air Brake restriction removed in Illinois, I stopped by the NMCSA midwest office in Matteson IL to get clairification on the Regs, they told me that if you drive more than 150 miles as part of your Business that you're subject to HOS rules even if the vehicle dos'nt require a CDL. So by what they told me I Violated not having a log book, not documenting being off duty the previous 7 days, exceeding 11 hrs driving, the 14 hr rule and not doing/documenting Pre/Post trip inspections. Yes I know if a local Cop pulled me over for a tail light, it probably would'nt be a problem, but if State trooper that was also a DOT inspector pulled me over he could make a case, especially when he see's my license , CDL A with TX on it, he would tell me I should know better, any other long time Drivers here that know about this, thanks, Dan
CDL:
Commercial Driver's License (CDL)
A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:
- Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
- Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
CSA:
Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)
The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle
DOT:
Department Of Transportation
A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.
State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.
HOS:
Hours Of Service
HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Turbo Dan, I pulled this from you states' (IL) DMV web site:
Who needs a commercial driver license?
Anyone who wants to drive commercial vehicles in the state of Illinois needs a commercial driver license, or CDL.
While we usually think of commercial drivers as truckers driving big rigs transporting goods, you need a CDL to drive any of the following vehicles:
Vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of at least 26,001 lbs. or more, as long as the GVWR of the vehicle being towed is heavier than 10,000 lbs. A single vehicle with a weight rating of 26,001 lbs. or more, or any vehicle towing another that's less than or equal to 10,000 lbs. All vehicles designed to transport 16 passengers or more, including the driver. Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
Nothing there about driving a SUV over 150 miles. No Commercial license, no log book.
CDL:
Commercial Driver's License (CDL)
A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:
- Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
- Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
GVWR:
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
GVWR is the maximum operating weight of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer, minus any trailers.
GCWR:
Gross Combined Weight Rating
The GCWR refers to the total weight of a vehicle, including all trailers.
Dm:
Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager
The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.DMV:
Department of Motor Vehicles, Bureau of Motor Vehicles
The state agency that handles everything related to your driver's licences, including testing, issuance, transfers, and revocation.
OWI:
Operating While Intoxicated
Turbo Dan, I pulled this from you states' (IL) DMV web site:
Who needs a commercial driver license?
Anyone who wants to drive commercial vehicles in the state of Illinois needs a commercial driver license, or CDL.
While we usually think of commercial drivers as truckers driving big rigs transporting goods, you need a CDL to drive any of the following vehicles:
Vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of at least 26,001 lbs. or more, as long as the GVWR of the vehicle being towed is heavier than 10,000 lbs. A single vehicle with a weight rating of 26,001 lbs. or more, or any vehicle towing another that's less than or equal to 10,000 lbs. All vehicles designed to transport 16 passengers or more, including the driver. Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
Nothing there about driving a SUV over 150 miles. No Commercial license, no log book.
Rolling Thunder, thanks for the replies, Been thru the Illinois truck safety week deal back in 2011, got DOT'd 1 mile from RT 66 drag strip on RT 53 south of I80, with my Ford F350 & my 42ft tripple axle Chaparalle 5th wheel goose neck trailer and got 2 tickets and 5 warnings and an OOS for not having a CDL A for my Rig, 10,000 pickup and 18,000 trailer,, 28,000 GVWR, so I've been round the block in ILLinios. Just did this 5 day 3000 mile round trip to Laredo and back as part of my Racing show business, spent all last winter driving smooth Bore tanker full of Frack Gel from Chicago to ND, Wyoming, PA and Ohio, thru more snow storms and Blizzards than I care to remember. This trip was Interstate so the Federal Regs apply. I was told buy the NMCSA midwest office that you could be in a F150 (non CDL vehicle or driver) getting paid by your Job or your own Business and travel more the a 150 air miles Interstate, that you have to follow HOS rules. I know most members of this Forum are brand new and won't have heard of this, and I'm not sure of the Interpitation I was told, just nit picking the Regs I Quess, thanks Dan
CDL:
Commercial Driver's License (CDL)
A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:
- Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
- Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
CSA:
Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)
The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle
DOT:
Department Of Transportation
A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.
State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.
GVWR:
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
GVWR is the maximum operating weight of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer, minus any trailers.
Interstate:
Commercial trade, business, movement of goods or money, or transportation from one state to another, regulated by the Federal Department Of Transportation (DOT).
GCWR:
Gross Combined Weight Rating
The GCWR refers to the total weight of a vehicle, including all trailers.
Dm:
Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager
The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.DMV:
Department of Motor Vehicles, Bureau of Motor Vehicles
The state agency that handles everything related to your driver's licences, including testing, issuance, transfers, and revocation.
HOS:
Hours Of Service
HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.OWI:
Operating While Intoxicated
OOS:
When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.
Be careful not to confuse Logging requirements, with CDL requirements, with HOS , with weigh station requirements. (and Med Card requirement) Also. FMCSA are usually for INTERSTATE commerce (which leads to my confusion as to why the 100/150 mile LOGGING vs. time records exception is a Federal Reg when it doesn't matter whether you cross the state line?). FMCSA (so for interstate) says commercial motor vehicle (with ecceptions) is 10K+. Med card needed for 10K+. Weigh station is State to State (many require stop at 10K+ GVWR/GCWR, around here the signs say over 8 tons). For INTRASTATE , rules can vary. Texas has some different HOS rules, Illinois requires non-CDL class C for 16K-26K.
The 2nd post example is interesting because it involves a mix of commercial/non-commercial vehicles. Basically, it looks like if you are going to do anything (including driving non-commercial vehicle) during a period that you drive something that requires a log, you need to log all the time and have all records for the time period you are required to have records for that vehicle. The trooper said show the non-commercial time as On Duty. Sounds like if for work you ride your bike or even walked M-TH, then drive 33K box truck on FRI, you need log records showing ON DUTY for M-F. Wish I'd known that when I jumped between a Van and a 26K straight truck with the last company I worked for. Lucky, I was never stopped.
CDL:
Commercial Driver's License (CDL)
A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:
- Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
- Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
Commercial Motor Vehicle:
A commercial motor vehicle is any vehicle used in commerce to transport passengers or property with either:
- A gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more
- A gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more which includes a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 10,000 pounds
CSA:
Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)
The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle
FMCSA:
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.
What Does The FMCSA Do?
- Commercial Drivers' Licenses
- Data and Analysis
- Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
- Research and Technology
- Safety Assistance
- Support and Information Sharing
GVWR:
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
GVWR is the maximum operating weight of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer, minus any trailers.
Interstate Commerce:
Commercial trade, business, movement of goods or money, or transportation from one state to another, regulated by the Federal Department Of Transportation (DOT).
Interstate:
Commercial trade, business, movement of goods or money, or transportation from one state to another, regulated by the Federal Department Of Transportation (DOT).
Intrastate:
The act of purchasers and sellers transacting business while keeping all transactions in a single state, without crossing state lines to do so.
GCWR:
Gross Combined Weight Rating
The GCWR refers to the total weight of a vehicle, including all trailers.
Fm:
Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager
The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.HOS:
Hours Of Service
HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.OWI:
Operating While Intoxicated
Trivia: 100/150 air miles is not just an "as the crow flies" circle vs. your actual driving miles, it's based on aeronautical miles, which are about 15% longer than land miles. So 150 air-miles is 172.6 miles for you and me.
Trivia: 100/150 air miles is not just an "as the crow flies" circle vs. your actual driving miles, it's based on aeronautical miles, which are about 15% longer than land miles. So 150 air-miles is 172.6 miles for you and me.
Great point, Wm T, I've had a Pilot Lic since 1978,, Instrument and Commercial since !981, I did'nt catch the thing about Air miles to aeronautical miles,,, bet most State Troopers don't know the difference either,, One of my friends that runs a Nitro Funny car got ticketed for Log book Violations, Drove from Chicago to Indy, 18 wheeler big Rig,, said because he was over 150 miles he needed to have logged HOS including the Previous week,, he owns a body shop,, so I now know that would have counted for on duty time (FYI flipping hamburgers at Micky Ds, counts as on duty time) ,, the extra difference in milage my have kept him out of that situation
HOS:
Hours Of Service
HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.New Reply:
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I drove my personal Ford Escape suv 3000 miles round trip from Chicago to Laredo TX and back this past week, Monday thru Friday. I transported 300 lbs of Jet turbine parts for repair and returned with a rebuilt turbine Hot section for my Exhibition Race Car business which is Incorporated. I didn't fill out any HOS paper logs, ect. Did I Violate HOS Regs?
HOS:
Hours Of Service
HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.