Hours Of Service Question (Time At Shipper/Reciever)

Rick's question for Rainy:

Rainy - I'm curious if there's a macro or similar in your QC that tells it you are taking the split - so it correctly calculates your remaining hours until you have to take THE SECOND BREAK?

I'm assuming it doesn't just "automatically do split sleeper" and you have to actually tell it to?

Errol butts in:

The QC bumps the times as they are available. In other words, go Sleeper, and 8 hours later your remaining time comes up on your clock. (Staying Sleeper for the ten does the regular reset.) It's automatic. You can roll with that, and you still need the other 2 hours to get your full day.

You don't need to do anything to the QC except use Sleeper, not Off Duty.

Errol butts in: and misunderstands the question (LOL)

The QC bumps the times as they are available. In other words, go Sleeper, and 8 hours later your remaining time comes up on your clock. (Staying Sleeper for the ten does the regular reset.) It's automatic. You can roll with that, and you still need the other 2 hours to get your full day.

You don't need to do anything to the QC except use Sleeper, not Off Duty.

The question/clarification Rainy & I worked through together, was how to do a split with the TWO HOUR BREAK FIRST.

And the question I still wonder about - as far as QC/E-Logs go...

If you are planning on using the split sleeper rule (exception) and take the two hour break FIRST - how does the QC "know" you are taking the 2 as the first of two breaks in the split? Plenty of drivers (most if not all) go off duty after checking in, some waits can go longer than 2 hours. How does the QC know you are going to do a "split" if you don't have a way to TELL IT?

Conversely - if you have a wait that is 8 hours - and you want to use that as a "split" to extend your 14 and get moving - does the QC just automatically count that 8 as the break (you have to log it as sleeper though).

Essentially - the question is - is there a "special way" you have to tell the E-Logs that you are doing a split-sleeper-rule (similar to making a notation on the "adverse conditions exception" to extend by your 11 by 2 hours - but you have to note 395.1(b) in the log when you take it).

I know - making this more confusing than it has to be probably. Just want to know for a point of ACCURACY in the future.

Rick

I'm not sure about the "2 hr first" way. I was planning to do a full split sleeper and photograph my QC for a detailed posting. But other things got in the way, including trying to figure out my set of photos.

But after 8 hours in the sleeper, even if you are planning the usual ten, the QC timer adds the remaining time back in for that day. If you start to roll right then, you still owe the 2 hours for a full reset. But two hours later, Bing! you get all ten and you have a new day.

I'm not sure about the "2 hr first" way. I was planning to do a full split sleeper and photograph my QC for a detailed posting. But other things got in the way, including trying to figure out my set of photos.

But after 8 hours in the sleeper, even if you are planning the usual ten, the QC timer adds the remaining time back in for that day. If you start to roll right then, you still owe the 2 hours for a full reset. But two hours later, Bing! you get all ten and you have a new day.

Figured as much - as far as that goes. From what Rainy was saying in her example - after she hit the 8 hours on her 2nd break - the QC did the recalc. Excluded the 8 from her 14 - and recalculated to zero at the end of the FIRST BREAK (the 2 hour one).

In practice, it's not that difficult to just let the box tell you what your hours are. If you are using splits to try and plan for appointment times, it helps to know how they interact with the clock, so you can figure your driving windows out.

Rick

The 2 hour break is the one that counts towards your 14. Not the 8.

In theory, whether you take a 2/8 or 8/2 whichever side the 2 is on in tweaking to the 8, you must consider your 14 hour clock after break. The difference between the 11 and the 14 is 3 hours so when you take the 2 hour break that means you basically have 1 hour left on your 14 clock before your clock starts using the 14.

So, for example one way the split break is bad for you is if you take a 8/2. Than after the 2 you get to the shipper to unload which takes 4 hours. Since the 2 hour break counts towards your 14 as does the 4 hour unload you will have 6 hours taken off your 14 in which case it is a real possibility you will run out of time and probably have to stay at the shipper for 8 hours, which is terrible.

The other weird interesting thing - if you take the TWO BREAK FIRST - is that your clocks DO NOT RESET - until the completion of the 2nd (in this case the 8) break. So you can't figure your recalc until you take the 2nd break. Taking the 8 first makes it pretty easy, but you still have to be mindful not to "overdrive" either clock, because they don't "technically" recalc/zero to the end of the FIRST BREAK, until you have COMPLETED THE SECOND ONE.

Rainy - I'm curious if there's a macro or similar in your QC that tells it you are taking the split - so it correctly calculates your remaining hours until you have to take THE SECOND BREAK?

I'm assuming it doesn't just "automatically do split sleeper" and you have to actually tell it to?

Rick

There's no Macro. It just calculates it automatically. You can do more time on each break too....or just do 8/8. I've actually done 8 sleeper..drove to the customer then did another 8 there during unload. It works the same way cause the break times are minimum of 2/8.

As Eroll said, the clock will automatically give the hours back as soon as 8 sleeper hits....even while you are taking a full 10. I have woken up in middle of the break and realized I forgot an earlier 2/hr....saw I had hours and rolled lol. Which means every single person on this site who has waited at a customer for over two hours will see the calculations when they shut down for the day and hit the 8 sleeper mark.

By the time I posted this message the sleeper time had changed, but my available hours did not. That will be my available drive time until I hit 10. Once I hit a full 10 break, the clocks filled in completely.

And I've said repeatedly, you don't have to do a 2 at all. If you only need to extend the 14, no 2 is necessary.

For example, I hit traffic in the NE today...big surprise. I shut down at 1600 with 4:30 on my drive. My appt is for 0630. If I took a full 10, I couldn't start until 0200 and would have to drive 240 miles which only gives me a 30 min leeway. However, by starting at 0000, I can drive the 240 miles and most likely arrive around 0400 for 0630 appt. By the time I am out of there, I'm sure the 2 hr will be met and I get 7hrs back. If not...it doesn't matter. I could take a full ten now without taking a 2, just the 8 was enough to get me to the customer.

Isaac H tried to explain the math on another thread by adding the various breaks and drive time to show the 14. But IMO its kinda hard that way. BTW taking an 8 sleeper first doesn't reset anything either. It just gives you back the same amount of drive time you had going into the sleeper. To truly reset, you must take the 2hr, then deduct the time you used between the breaks.

You can know your recalc before you take both breaks though. If I come out of the 2hr at midnight then my clock starts at midnight..in my head...not the QC. Once I start the 8 sleeper I know what amount of time I used. So if I used 3 hours of drive and 1 hour on duty...that is 4 hours. When I get out of the 8 sleeper....I'll have 8 of drive and 10 on the 14. Its not that confusing when you actually try it.

You are all wonderful peoples with these illuminating discussions. I feel like you do on this Rainy: the rule seems simple enough to me in practice. It's when drivers start introducing math and 'calculating' the clocks, and taking paragraphs and paragraphs trying to explain it that it gets needlessly confusing (at least for me!) It's great to have these real world examples and info on what the QC does though. Thank y'all.

Sculpy hit the nail on the head. There is no need to complicate the HOS rules.

Pages 3 thru 6 of the Interstate Truck Driver's Guide to Hours of Service explain in great detail, everything that you need to know about your 11, 14, and 70 hour clocks, your 30 rest break, and your 34 hour restart.

The sleeper-berth provision is explained on page 14 with a detailed example on page 14 and 15.

If you need more examples to understand the HOS rules, or if you want to see log book entries with explanations in addition to the text, then have a look at the Hours of Service Logbook Examples. Pages 28 thru 34 have four different examples - again with explanations - of log entries using the split-berth provision, including two with violations and explanations of what and why they are in violation. There are thirty different examples covering just about any situation you could encounter.

I hope this doesn't muddy the water to much...

Sculpy hit the nail on the head. There is no need to complicate the HOS rules.

Pages 3 thru 6 of the Interstate Truck Driver's Guide to Hours of Service explain in great detail, everything that you need to know about your 11, 14, and 70 hour clocks, your 30 rest break, and your 34 hour restart.

The sleeper-berth provision is explained on page 14 with a detailed example on page 14 and 15.

If you need more examples to understand the HOS rules, or if you want to see log book entries with explanations in addition to the text, then have a look at the Hours of Service Logbook Examples. Pages 28 thru 34 have four different examples - again with explanations - of log entries using the split-berth provision, including two with violations and explanations of what and why they are in violation. There are thirty different examples covering just about any situation you could encounter.

I hope this doesn't muddy the water to much...

MUD slinger!!! Haha sorry couldn't help it. Good points ;)

Rainy said:

MUD slinger!!! Haha sorry couldn't help it. Good points ;)

No worries. I've been stirring pots and raking muck for more years than I care to count - not going to stop anytime soon...

I've also extracted great joy over the years by asking the Stupid Question of the Day.

If the members of TT are interested, I could certainly spread some of that joy (pun intended) around here.

Its all fun and games until someone loses an eye...

...

then its just fun...