C.R. England Commercial Learner’s Permit Holders Can Drive Without CDL Holder In Front Seat
Topic 9027 | Page 1
Plain stupid. A trainers job is to be in the front seat to observe the students and to help them along.
For instance PSD phase with Prime the trainer is in the front seat cause the student is new! They need correction and help with learning to drive. Backing. Parking. Basically learning how to be a driver.
TnT phase. The student knows how to drive though still in training but mainly learning the Qualcomm. Paperwork. How to interact with customers. How to make sure the trailer is loaded the right way. Sliding tandems and other stuff. They can drive but may need a little fine tuning from the TnT trainer.
OK now the nice is done with.... Rant time!
Cr England wtf were you thinking? We have some really questionable trainers in trucking as it is now they are given the ok to run a student as a full team?!! Have you lost you mother effing minds?
How could the fmcsa even think this was an acceptable idea? Omg! We have hinted at, accused and brow beaten trainers that do this and here the government gives them the ok and allow this? Wtf?!
Teams take turn driving. Each team member gets their sleep? Where the f%#k does training come into play? No where! If the trainer is sleeping how the hell is he training? Seriously?
I am very mad for the students. I was a trainer and know the commitment that a person gives to make sure a person is trained the right way. I also know that the bad trainers use students as an extra logbook.
This new exception will be taken advantage of for training even more than it used to be. Perhaps I am jumping the gun and ranting for no reason. I doubt it. I may not know every detail of the exception for Cr England. I don't have to. I know how some trainers treat their students. This will make it worse than ever. It's BS straight from the cows rectum.
Sorry but from this point on I can not in good conscience recommend any company that gets the exemption. It sets a bad precedent. I feel for any student that attends school at a company that has this exemption in place.
Sorry but no matter how they twist it they can not put in any safe guards to protect the students. The company is not in the truck with the trainer to make sure he is doing his job.
This is so bad and dangerous it's unbelievable that the fmcsa allowed this. All about safety my butt. Money changed hands. No one safety minded could ever think this would be OK.
Now with that all being said. I will not bad mouth Cr England on the forums. That is not what we are about BUT I will be sure to make it plain and clear I am not recommending them as somewhere I would want a student to go to.
Logbook:
A written or electronic record of a driver's duty status which must be maintained at all times. The driver records the amount of time spent driving, on-duty not driving, in the sleeper berth, or off duty. The enforcement of the Hours Of Service Rules (HOS) are based upon the entries put in a driver's logbook.
Tandems:
Tandem Axles
A set of axles spaced close together, legally defined as more than 40 and less than 96 inches apart by the USDOT. Drivers tend to refer to the tandem axles on their trailer as just "tandems". You might hear a driver say, "I'm 400 pounds overweight on my tandems", referring to his trailer tandems, not his tractor tandems. Tractor tandems are generally just referred to as "drives" which is short for "drive axles".
Tandem:
Tandem Axles
A set of axles spaced close together, legally defined as more than 40 and less than 96 inches apart by the USDOT. Drivers tend to refer to the tandem axles on their trailer as just "tandems". You might hear a driver say, "I'm 400 pounds overweight on my tandems", referring to his trailer tandems, not his tractor tandems. Tractor tandems are generally just referred to as "drives" which is short for "drive axles".
Qualcomm:
Omnitracs (a.k.a. Qualcomm) is a satellite-based messaging system with built-in GPS capabilities built by Qualcomm. It has a small computer screen and keyboard and is tied into the truck’s computer. It allows trucking companies to track where the driver is at, monitor the truck, and send and receive messages with the driver – similar to email.CSA:
Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)
The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle
FMCSA:
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.
What Does The FMCSA Do?
- Commercial Drivers' Licenses
- Data and Analysis
- Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
- Research and Technology
- Safety Assistance
- Support and Information Sharing
Fm:
Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager
The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.PSD:
Prime Student Driver
Prime Inc has a CDL training program and the first phase is referred to as PSD. You'll get your permit and then 10,000 miles of on the road instruction.
The following is from Prime's website:
Prime’s PSD begins with you obtaining your CDL permit. Then you’ll go on the road with a certified CDL instructor for no less than 75 hours of one-on-one behind the wheel training. After training, you’ll return to Prime’s corporate headquarters in Springfield, Missouri, for final CDL state testing and your CDL license.
Obtain CDL Permit / 4 Days
- Enter program, study and test for Missouri CDL permit.
- Start driving/training at Prime Training Center in Springfield, Missouri.
- Work toward 40,000 training dispatched miles (minimum) with food allowance while without CDL (Food allowance is paid back with future earnings).
On-the-Road Instruction / 10,000 Miles
- Train with experienced certified CDL instructor for 3-4 weeks in a real world environment.
- Get 75 hours of behind-the-wheel time with one-on-one student/instructor ratio.
- Earn 10,000 miles toward total 40,000 miles needed.
TNT:
Trainer-N-Trainee
Prime Inc has their own CDL training program and it's divided into two phases - PSD and TNT.
The PSD (Prime Student Driver) phase is where you'll get your permit and then go on the road for 10,000 miles with a trainer. When you come back you'll get your CDL license and enter the TNT phase.
The TNT phase is the second phase of training where you'll go on the road with an experienced driver for 30,000 miles of team driving. You'll receive 14¢ per mile ($700 per week guaranteed) during this phase. Once you're finished with TNT training you will be assigned a truck to run solo.
A rookie, fresh out of school, and just starting training does not need supervision?
Nobody said they won't have supervision. They said the trainer will still be in the truck but doesn't have to be sitting in the passenger seat. He can sit in the bunk if he wants and the two of them can run team, which is how most training programs are already being done.
And besides, the student has qualified to receive their CDL so legally they qualify to drive alone and unsupervised already. CR England didn't say they were going to send them out solo but they could legally do so if they wanted to.
In a nutshell, all they're doing is rightfully giving the driver the status of 'CDL holder' instead of 'CDL permit holder' because the driver has already earned a CDL. That way the driver can drive without the trainer sitting in the passenger seat the entire time.
Believe me I share everyone's concern which is why I went through the article and the document thoroughly. Nobody is pulling any baloney here. CR England is just trying to get a technicality accounted for in a logical way. They're simply saying, "Look, this driver has passed every requirement to earn a CDL so he should have the full rights of a CDL holder."
And they're right.
That's all it is.
CDL:
Commercial Driver's License (CDL)
A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:
- Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
- Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
That is the dumbest thing ever. If they're experiencing such a driver shortage then they should offer better pay. No one is going to choose .25cpm when every other company will pay much more (unless their past disqualifies them from qualifying).
This is just downright dangerous and will cost someone their life. I guess it's time to start seeing more CRE accidents on the road...
CPM:
Cents Per Mile
Drivers are often paid by the mile and it's given in cents per mile, or cpm.
OOS:
When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.
Plain stupid. A trainers job is to be in the front seat to observe the students and to help them along.
For instance PSD phase with Prime the trainer is in the front seat cause the student is new! They need correction and help with learning to drive. Backing. Parking. Basically learning how to be a driver.
TnT phase. The student knows how to drive though still in training but mainly learning the Qualcomm. Paperwork. How to interact with customers. How to make sure the trailer is loaded the right way. Sliding tandems and other stuff. They can drive but may need a little fine tuning from the TnT trainer.
OK now the nice is done with.... Rant time!
Cr England wtf were you thinking? We have some really questionable trainers in trucking as it is now they are given the ok to run a student as a full team?!! Have you lost you mother effing minds?
How could the fmcsa even think this was an acceptable idea? Omg! We have hinted at, accused and brow beaten trainers that do this and here the government gives them the ok and allow this? Wtf?!
Teams take turn driving. Each team member gets their sleep? Where the f%#k does training come into play? No where! If the trainer is sleeping how the hell is he training? Seriously?
I am very mad for the students. I was a trainer and know the commitment that a person gives to make sure a person is trained the right way. I also know that the bad trainers use students as an extra logbook.
This new exception will be taken advantage of for training even more than it used to be. Perhaps I am jumping the gun and ranting for no reason. I doubt it. I may not know every detail of the exception for Cr England. I don't have to. I know how some trainers treat their students. This will make it worse than ever. It's BS straight from the cows rectum.
Sorry but from this point on I can not in good conscience recommend any company that gets the exemption. It sets a bad precedent. I feel for any student that attends school at a company that has this exemption in place.
Sorry but no matter how they twist it they can not put in any safe guards to protect the students. The company is not in the truck with the trainer to make sure he is doing his job.
This is so bad and dangerous it's unbelievable that the fmcsa allowed this. All about safety my butt. Money changed hands. No one safety minded could ever think this would be OK.
Now with that all being said. I will not bad mouth Cr England on the forums. That is not what we are about BUT I will be sure to make it plain and clear I am not recommending them as somewhere I would want a student to go to.
Logbook:
A written or electronic record of a driver's duty status which must be maintained at all times. The driver records the amount of time spent driving, on-duty not driving, in the sleeper berth, or off duty. The enforcement of the Hours Of Service Rules (HOS) are based upon the entries put in a driver's logbook.
Tandems:
Tandem Axles
A set of axles spaced close together, legally defined as more than 40 and less than 96 inches apart by the USDOT. Drivers tend to refer to the tandem axles on their trailer as just "tandems". You might hear a driver say, "I'm 400 pounds overweight on my tandems", referring to his trailer tandems, not his tractor tandems. Tractor tandems are generally just referred to as "drives" which is short for "drive axles".
Tandem:
Tandem Axles
A set of axles spaced close together, legally defined as more than 40 and less than 96 inches apart by the USDOT. Drivers tend to refer to the tandem axles on their trailer as just "tandems". You might hear a driver say, "I'm 400 pounds overweight on my tandems", referring to his trailer tandems, not his tractor tandems. Tractor tandems are generally just referred to as "drives" which is short for "drive axles".
Qualcomm:
Omnitracs (a.k.a. Qualcomm) is a satellite-based messaging system with built-in GPS capabilities built by Qualcomm. It has a small computer screen and keyboard and is tied into the truck’s computer. It allows trucking companies to track where the driver is at, monitor the truck, and send and receive messages with the driver – similar to email.CSA:
Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)
The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle
FMCSA:
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.
What Does The FMCSA Do?
- Commercial Drivers' Licenses
- Data and Analysis
- Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
- Research and Technology
- Safety Assistance
- Support and Information Sharing
Fm:
Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager
The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.PSD:
Prime Student Driver
Prime Inc has a CDL training program and the first phase is referred to as PSD. You'll get your permit and then 10,000 miles of on the road instruction.
The following is from Prime's website:
Prime’s PSD begins with you obtaining your CDL permit. Then you’ll go on the road with a certified CDL instructor for no less than 75 hours of one-on-one behind the wheel training. After training, you’ll return to Prime’s corporate headquarters in Springfield, Missouri, for final CDL state testing and your CDL license.
Obtain CDL Permit / 4 Days
- Enter program, study and test for Missouri CDL permit.
- Start driving/training at Prime Training Center in Springfield, Missouri.
- Work toward 40,000 training dispatched miles (minimum) with food allowance while without CDL (Food allowance is paid back with future earnings).
On-the-Road Instruction / 10,000 Miles
- Train with experienced certified CDL instructor for 3-4 weeks in a real world environment.
- Get 75 hours of behind-the-wheel time with one-on-one student/instructor ratio.
- Earn 10,000 miles toward total 40,000 miles needed.
TNT:
Trainer-N-Trainee
Prime Inc has their own CDL training program and it's divided into two phases - PSD and TNT.
The PSD (Prime Student Driver) phase is where you'll get your permit and then go on the road for 10,000 miles with a trainer. When you come back you'll get your CDL license and enter the TNT phase.
The TNT phase is the second phase of training where you'll go on the road with an experienced driver for 30,000 miles of team driving. You'll receive 14¢ per mile ($700 per week guaranteed) during this phase. Once you're finished with TNT training you will be assigned a truck to run solo.
Guyjax I completely agree with you. To be wholeheartedly honest, I have lost any and all respect for CRE. You can't tell me that a company that has safety as their top priority would want this. No, it's all about the revenue and not about safety and that's just wrong. Shame on them.
I take this personally because my wife and family are sharing the same roads with these trucks and if it's a driver without a license I at least want to know that he's being supervised.
And like you, I cannot and will not recommend them to anyone anymore. They're officially a danger on the road and don't give two ****s about safety.
Every company is struggling for drivers but you don't see them going this far. They usually offer a sign on bonus or some other incentive to attract potential drivers. You don't see it here. This is a completely selfish, money-driven deathwish on innocent people and it's all because they fail to attract drivers.
So basically, I can't drive (go to school for that matter) without getting a very expensive sleep study done first even though I exhibit little if any of the symptoms other than being fat, yet their trainees can drive with no experience? Makes sense.
We're not supposed to talk bad about other companies here, but what's going on at CRE is insane. The .25 CPM and this is disgusting. I understand companies having business models revolved around employing new drivers for cheaper labor and incurring the liabilities that come with it, but what CRE is doing is a complete racket and dangerous to the industry. I think they should be taken off of our list of company sponsored companies because I don't think they can be recommended in good faith to anyone seeking a start in this industry.
CPM:
Cents Per Mile
Drivers are often paid by the mile and it's given in cents per mile, or cpm.
I think they should be taken off of our list of company sponsored companies because I don't think they can be recommended in good faith to anyone seeking a start in this industry.
I agree.
This is just another example of how lobbyists get paid. Sad really.
This is just plain stupid. And the shortage is phony. Short compared to what? If the shortage was real as many profess the rates would be much higher. False claim to bolster things like this and government financing. Phony bolony
C.R. England Commercial Learner’s Permit Holders Can Drive Without CDL Holder In Front Seat
The FMCSA has granted an exemption that will allow C.R. England commercial learner’s permit holders to drive without a CDL holder accompanying them in the front seat.
C.R. England applied for the exemption as a way to combat the driver shortage. For the next two years, as long as a student has a commercial learner’s permit and has passed a CDL skills test, he or she is allowed to drive team for C.R. England with a driver trainer who is not required to be in the front seat.
C.R. England says that the exemption will allow them to run team operations until the student can make it to his or her home state to receive a temporary CDL. According to a statement from the FMCSA, C.R. England says that the exemption will “allow these drivers to operate in a way that benefits the driver, the carrier, and the economy as a wholewithout any detriment to safety.”
OOIDA has spoken out against the exemption, saying that it is a step back and that it will require additional training for law enforcement.
CDL:
Commercial Driver's License (CDL)
A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:
- Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
- Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
CSA:
Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)
The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle
FMCSA:
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.
What Does The FMCSA Do?
- Commercial Drivers' Licenses
- Data and Analysis
- Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
- Research and Technology
- Safety Assistance
- Support and Information Sharing
Fm:
Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager
The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.OOIDA:
Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association
Who They Are
OOIDA is an international trade association representing the interests of independent owner-operators and professional drivers on all issues that affect truckers. The over 150,000 members of OOIDA are men and women in all 50 states and Canada who collectively own and/or operate more than 240,000 individual heavy-duty trucks and small truck fleets.
Their Mission
The mission of OOIDA is to serve owner-operators, small fleets and professional truckers; to work for a business climate where truckers are treated equally and fairly; to promote highway safety and responsibility among all highway users; and to promote a better business climate and efficiency for all truck operators.
I completely agree with the above. This has taken insanity to a new level. I will not bad mouth anyone here, but I certainly will not recommend any company with a practice such as this. I will also be alot more cautious around those trucks.
HOS:
Hours Of Service
HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
I agree with what everyone is saying, but maybe I'm reading this story differently. It says it applies to those who hold a learner's permit (i.e. those who have passed the written test) and have passed the skills test. So they've already basically passed all the requirements to get the full CDL , but they just haven't been able to go to the DMV in their home state yet to file the paperwork. It seems like it's just a temporary measure to allow them to drive until they get home and pay for the full license. I don't feel like that's the same thing as what everyone is thinking.
CDL:
Commercial Driver's License (CDL)
A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:
- Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
- Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
Dm:
Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager
The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.DMV:
Department of Motor Vehicles, Bureau of Motor Vehicles
The state agency that handles everything related to your driver's licences, including testing, issuance, transfers, and revocation.
HOS:
Hours Of Service
HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.New Reply:
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C.R. England Commercial Learner’s Permit Holders Can Drive Without CDL Holder In Front Seat
The FMCSA has granted an exemption that will allow C.R. England commercial learner’s permit holders to drive without a CDL holder accompanying them in the front seat.
C.R. England applied for the exemption as a way to combat the driver shortage. For the next two years, as long as a student has a commercial learner’s permit and has passed a CDL skills test, he or she is allowed to drive team for C.R. England with a driver trainer who is not required to be in the front seat.
C.R. England says that the exemption will allow them to run team operations until the student can make it to his or her home state to receive a temporary CDL. According to a statement from the FMCSA, C.R. England says that the exemption will “allow these drivers to operate in a way that benefits the driver, the carrier, and the economy as a wholewithout any detriment to safety.”
OOIDA has spoken out against the exemption, saying that it is a step back and that it will require additional training for law enforcement.
CDL:
Commercial Driver's License (CDL)
A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:
CSA:
Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)
The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle
FMCSA:
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.
What Does The FMCSA Do?
Fm:
Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager
The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.OOIDA:
Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association
Who They Are
OOIDA is an international trade association representing the interests of independent owner-operators and professional drivers on all issues that affect truckers. The over 150,000 members of OOIDA are men and women in all 50 states and Canada who collectively own and/or operate more than 240,000 individual heavy-duty trucks and small truck fleets.
Their Mission
The mission of OOIDA is to serve owner-operators, small fleets and professional truckers; to work for a business climate where truckers are treated equally and fairly; to promote highway safety and responsibility among all highway users; and to promote a better business climate and efficiency for all truck operators.