C.R. England Commercial Learner’s Permit Holders Can Drive Without CDL Holder In Front Seat

I agree with what everyone is saying, but maybe I'm reading this story differently. It says it applies to those who hold a learner's permit (i.e. those who have passed the written test) and have passed the skills test. So they've already basically passed all the requirements to get the full CDL , but they just haven't been able to go to the DMV in their home state yet to file the paperwork. It seems like it's just a temporary measure to allow them to drive until they get home and pay for the full license. I don't feel like that's the same thing as what everyone is thinking.

The law is law. Permitted students still need a full cdl minoriting their driving. They are still in training status even after obtaining their plastic hard cdl. At England the return home to get a cdl happens 14 days in to training but no longer than 30 days. I used to train for England. So this means they can be run as teams as a student before they even reach the 30 day mark of experience.

I"m not sure how this is working fully so someone feel free to enlighten me. It says they have passed a skills test before they can drive without a qualified CDL holder in the jump seat. Ok I get that. So they've passed the pretrip and skills, what about the road test? Are they returning home to their perspective states to take a road test? Does CRE require you to come with your resident states permit? Do they not give testing at their facilities? I also don't understand how this company can get an exemption while other companies training policies don't seem to need this exemption? What makes CRE so special?

I can only speak for Prime in that I know some show up with permits from their perspective states, but are issued a Missouri licence (HQ is in Springfield, MO) and then AFTER training the new CDL holders must return to their home states to obtain that states hard copy. In some cases the individual states may require a written test in that state and only 1 that I know of requires you to take a skills and written to transfer an out of state CDL (Illinois) So the bottom line is I don't understand why this exemption should be made at all when there are other companies getting along just fine.

I hate to say this as its total speculation but it sounds like some FMCA official got their pockets greased if you know what I mean. I'm very worried for the precedent this is setting.

Last I'll say any trainer that can actually sleep behind a permitted CDL holder is pretty crazy. One of the reasons I don't want to train in the TNT phase with Prime is I"m not sure I could sleep behind someone with only 75 or so hours of driving a big rig. Not unless they really proved to me in those hours that they had a GREAT handle on what they were doing.

OK THIS is the last thing lol. I also think that CRE should be required by law to make any vehicle being operated by one of these operators to display a placard or bright yellow sign stating "student driver in operation." Or something. I think this is also a good idea with any company to display something like this.

Unfortunately the headline did exactly what it was intended to do. It made everyone take notice, instantly jump to crazy conclusions, and want to share it with the world. A newspaper editor's dream.

Basically what happened is that people are no longer getting temporary CDL's issued when they take their CDL skills test out of state. Instead they're getting a certificate saying they've passed the test. But in order to get their CDL they have to return to their home state with this certificate first. It's the drive back to their home state after the student has already passed the CDL skills test that they wanted the exemption for.

Basically what CR England is contending was that the driver has already qualified to get their CDL by passing the exams but simply hasn't been issued the license yet by their home state so they should be allowed full driving privileges. And they're right.

Here's a quote from the document:

C.R. England seeks an exemption from 49 CFR 383.25(a)(1) that would allow CLP holders who have successfully passed a CDL skills test and are thus eligible to receive a CDL, to drive a truck without a CDL holder being present in the front seat. This would allow a CLP holder to participate in a revenue-producing trip back to his or her State of domicile to obtain the CDL document, as the CDL can only be issued by the State of domicile in accordance with Part 383.

C.R. England advised that FMCSA is aware of the trucking industry’s need for qualified and well-trained drivers to meet increasing shipping demands. C.R. England believes that 49 CFR 383.25(a)(1) limits its ability to efficiently recruit, train, and employ new entrants to the industry. Prior to the implementation of section 385.25(a)(1), States routinely issued temporary CDLs to drivers who passed the CDL skills test. The temporary CDL allowed C.R. England time to route the new driver to his or her State of domicile to obtain the permanent CDL and place the new driver into an on-the- job training position with a driver- trainer.

The driver-trainer supervised and observed the new driver, but was not required to be on-duty and in the front seat at all times. Thus, the new driver became productive immediately, allowing more freight movement for C.R. England and compensation for the new driver.

In other words, this used to be fine until they changed the rules about issuing temporary CDLs to out of state drivers who have passed the exams.

It took some time to go through the article and the accompanying document but in the end it's clear CR England isn't doing anything wrong here. The driver has already qualified for their CDL by passing all of the skills tests.

Brett I understand that. With CR England you are not hired and go into training UNTIL you have passed all the test. Including the driving test at the dmv.

If they pass everything ONLY THEN are they assigned a trainer. Which means the trip home to get their new CDL-A is the first time they have been in a truck driving OTR other than what took place during the 3 weeks of school.

A rookie, fresh out of school, and just starting training does not need supervision? Tell me your joking and are only saying what it looks like on the surface? What's on the surface/paper and what actually happens are very different things in trucking. Unless things have changed dramatically since I was there training students.

The exemption sounds good on paper and has merit but it's going to be used improperly.

A rookie, fresh out of school, and just starting training does not need supervision?

Nobody said they won't have supervision. They said the trainer will still be in the truck but doesn't have to be sitting in the passenger seat. He can sit in the bunk if he wants and the two of them can run team, which is how most training programs are already being done.

And besides, the student has qualified to receive their CDL so legally they qualify to drive alone and unsupervised already. CR England didn't say they were going to send them out solo but they could legally do so if they wanted to.

In a nutshell, all they're doing is rightfully giving the driver the status of 'CDL holder' instead of 'CDL permit holder' because the driver has already earned a CDL. That way the driver can drive without the trainer sitting in the passenger seat the entire time.

Believe me I share everyone's concern which is why I went through the article and the document thoroughly. Nobody is pulling any baloney here. CR England is just trying to get a technicality accounted for in a logical way. They're simply saying, "Look, this driver has passed every requirement to earn a CDL so he should have the full rights of a CDL holder."

And they're right.

That's all it is.

I agree. But be completely honest.... You think a trainer in the sleeper is going to be doing anything but sleeping?

Most trainers do there job. I am just worried about the students getting a so called trainer. It's already bad enough out here as it is.

The trainers that are borderline but acceptable are just waiting for a chance for the rules to relax.

I guess the only way to combat the bad trainers is to make sure the good trainers get the respect they deserve.

If it weren't for Prime's pesky rule about having a passport and the ability to cross the border up north I might just head to Prime and start training again.

I don't like to read a lot if words. Titles are plenty enough.

How a trainer would be able to train/observe from the bunk is beyond me.

Can you say fast tracking teams?

Sounds dangerous.

The permit/ license issue aside, got to have a mentor in that passenger seat for reassurance if nothing else.

.02

I to read the same info as Brett and was aware of this information when they petitioned DOT for the waiver and everything Brett stated is correct. However I have some concerns on this issue. First and for most is that this can be easily abused by rogue trainers. Second the reason they asked for this waiver was so the company didn't have to get the new driver home right away to get his hard copy. They could keep him out teaming till they could swing him into his home state. So is their a time frame for this? Let's see how this plays out, I have a funny feeling about someone bending the rules a bit. But I am a born skeptic

Can you say fast tracking teams?

Sounds dangerous.

That's the way it has been done in the industry for 30+ years. Training a new driver is always dangerous, especially when you have to do it in a competitive environment like these companies are doing it.

the reason they asked for this waiver was so the company didn't have to get the new driver home right away to get his hard copy. They could keep him out teaming till they could swing him into his home state

I'm sure that's true and it makes sense from a business perspective. If a driver can handle running team then that's what the company will want to do.

But be completely honest.... You think a trainer in the sleeper is going to be doing anything but sleeping?

Most of the time that's exactly what they'll be doing - sleeping. But of course how the trainer handles the students will be at the discretion of the trainer as it always has been. If the trainer feels the student is ready to run team they'll run some team. If not I would expect the trainer to stay in the front seat and watch over the student. Nothing has changed in that regard. I don't expect there are too many suicidal trainers out there hoping to die in their sleep by going to bed while a student drives who can't be trusted yet.