My Student Driver Landed Himself In Hot Water. Almost Fired!

(Not joining this crowd)
NewGuy has been through trucking school and has gotten to the point he needs to learn how the trucking business works. It's about appointment times, as far as the customer is concerned. And your (his, too) money comes from being on time both for pick up and delivery. That's why I suggested earlier that he should have made one home visit for the birthday party, not two as he did.

It seems NewGuy had to go to a laundromat (he was not home when you got there) to do laundry. Laundromats are available at many truck stops. You have a load that's worth up to, say, a couple hundred dollars. So clean clothes or your paycheck? You decide.

As for the Boss thing. You are training him. He needs to learn from you, Mr Mentor. If that means making sure to do a pre-trip even though you just did one yesterday, so be it. A post-trip, too! As trainer, you aren't really able to fire him, but you are responsible for getting him to know and understand the trucking business. You and he do not have time do "adjust" from his previous life to the trucker life.

I have taught middle school people for over ten years. I know about learning modes and multiple intelligences and all that stuff. I have all the patience in the world as long as my student is learning. I also know NewGuy is not a kid. I believe in explanations as a learning tool. Your explanation for putting his wet clothes on the truck: "You had plenty of time to do this in the last two days. Just not right now. We can stop at a truck stop later to finish this. Right now, money is waiting and I do not want to lose it."

No I think you handled the situation pretty well... I am chuckling to myself as I imagine you chewing him out with a strong Russian accent.

I am usually considered more mature for my age as well, not as much as I used to be. When I was in my lower 20s people told me I acted much older than I was, now being 26 I guess I'm not a youngster so much so I don't get it. It's not that I am immature I just don't appear to be a kid.. maybe it's my beard (been growing it as long as I can, got about a half foot going now).

Next time you chew someone out could you record the audio so we can all have something to entertain ourselves with when we're feeling blue?

Interesting read guys.

Now when I say he almost got fired, I don't mean I almost fired him - my DM did. I almost fired him from my truck, my DM almost fired him from the company.

As far as me ratting him out to the company. He's just another student, not my friend or buddy and as such he doesn't get away with things like this. You give the students 1 inch and they'll take a mile. It's important to remind them where they are and looking the other way when it comes to being late like this won't help them in any way. Thats hand-holding.

I also didn't necessarily rat him out to my DM. I told him that my PTA is changing due to my student and told him why. That's covering my ass because I don't want to be dispatched on a load then be late. I won't sacrifice my reputation for the sake of holding my student hand through his irresponsiblities.

As far as the outcome, he is behaving much better. Now I don't and didn't foresee any future issues with him, but at the same time you need to make them realize that this is an industry that does not accept being late very well.

As far as being his boss, I have to disagree with you guys. I would argue that he has multiple bosses, and I'm one of them.

If he gets into an accident, who answers for it? If he falls asleep while driving, I will be questioned. If he violates his logbook , I will be questioned. I am responsible for his actions and I take the liability for his mistakes. I am the one signing off and approving of him going solo once he meets the qualifications. Remember, you can have your 40k miles in, but until your trainer says you're ready you're not going anywhere. I just think that's being more than a trainer, especially since I'm paying him out of my own paycheck.

I'm not arguing that you are responsible for certain things that are job related, that is what your being paid for and what a trainer both does and is. I Thought only lease drivers paid out their own pockets? Either way, Based on your he's just another student and your not buddys or friends comment, your obviously doing this soley for the money and it must pay decently. Your obviously not doing it because you enjoy the comraderie and enjoy teaching.

I've never once looked at or addressed my fleet manager as my boss. I'm working with him not necessarily for him. Last I checked, he wouldn't have a job at Prime if us just another students didn't go through the 3 month ordeal of getting our cdl and own truck.

You come across very arrogant and entitled. You seem to like saying that you will throw these 'just another students' off your truck because you've stated that in your other posts. Sounds like someone is on a power trip.

I most definitely stand by what I posted earlier in regard to you telling him I'm your boss comment. I would have laughed right in your face if you came at me like that.

Respect begets respect. It's a two way street

I'm not arguing that you are responsible for certain things that are job related, that is what your being paid for and what a trainer both does and is. I Thought only lease drivers paid out their own pockets? Either way, Based on your he's just another student and your not buddys or friends comment, your obviously doing this soley for the money and it must pay decently. Your obviously not doing it because you enjoy the comraderie and enjoy teaching.

I've never once looked at or addressed my fleet manager as my boss. I'm working with him not necessarily for him. Last I checked, he wouldn't have a job at Prime if us just another students didn't go through the 3 month ordeal of getting our cdl and own truck.

You come across very arrogant and entitled. You seem to like saying that you will throw these 'just another students' off your truck because you've stated that in your other posts. Sounds like someone is on a power trip.

I most definitely stand by what I posted earlier in regard to you telling him I'm your boss comment. I would have laughed right in your face if you came at me like that.

Respect begets respect. It's a two way street

That's fine, it's your opinion. Just because he's my student doesn't mean that I need to put him on a pedestal. It's a balancing act between being a friend and a trainer thats tough to understand until youve been there.

And you would really laugh at your trainer after he's angry at you and after you've had a discussion with the DM? Doubt that.

Now unto your next accusation. You don't know me nor know my intentions. You can't tell me what I'm doing it for. To say that I'm on a power trip is retarded. Maybe you enjoy being walked on but I dont. Tardiness is inexcusable.

And lastly, I do consider him a good guy but at the same time he needs to know what's ok and what's not. Being late is never ok especially under these conditions.

As far as the outcome, he is behaving much better. Now I don't and didn't foresee any future issues with him, but at the same time you need to make them realize that this is an industry that does not accept being late very well.

That's great! NewGuy was in a buddy road-trip mode until you woke him up to the fact this is a business trip.

I was thinking a bit ago: Trucking, like supermarkets and airlines is an extremely competitive business. NewGuy originally had the frame of mind that he got a job, and is getting paid. Actually, the trucking company is working hard to get a return on their investment and they hired NewGuy (and you) to help them out.

A slightly different take on the situation. But guess who has all the marbles?

I would have laughed right in your face if you came at me like that.

Respect begets respect. It's a two way street

First of all, if his student respected him he would have been on time. So that's where the two way street begins. Daniel showed tons of respect by making sure the guy got home to his family and got plenty of time off but then gets kicked in the face in return when it's time to go back to work. I guess you must have missed one side of the road in your "two way street of respect".

And you're saying Daniel should be humble when his student makes the conscious decision to ignore what he's told to do but you can be arrogant enough to laugh in a proven veteran's face when that proven veteran is risking his life to teach you your trade and he's responsible for your career moving forward? Great thinking right there. I don't think we'll find your take in the "7 Habits of Highly Successful People" anytime soon. You're arrogant as a student but you expect your trainers to be humble toward you? I'm sure in your world that makes sense.

Errol has experience teaching classrooms full of people and he understands that not everyone learns the same way or reacts the same way to circumstances. For instance, I played sports from the time I was a little kid growing up in the 70's. I'm from a small town and I had the greatest coaches in the world. What made em so great? They cared deeply about our success both on the field and off the field and held us to very high standards. They expected us to not only give everything we had at practice and in the games, but to represent ourselves and our town well off the field.

And make no mistake about it. You didn't dream of crossing these coaches. You didn't dream of ignoring what you were told to do or slacking off or misbehaving off the field. Because they would lay into you. When we screwed up we got an earful. When we did great we were commended. But regardless, we got what we deserved and we understood why.

And we never questioned if the coach was 'technically our boss' or if maybe his teaching approach was a bit too harsh. All we knew was they were trying to lead us to become better players and better people. And so we followed. That was our job. And they had the full backing of our parents who were behind us all the way but would kick our *sses double if we disrespected the coaches or misbehaved off the field.

And that was the way it always was for me. I had very high expectations from everyone around me - my coaches, teachers, and parents. I was expected to get high grades, to be really good at sports, and behave properly no matter what the circumstances. And that led to me having high expectations of myself which has continued throughout my entire life.

I wasn't babied and I wasn't pampered. I got my *ss chewed out when I screwed up and I was complimented when I lived up to expectations, as it should be. At least I thought that's how it should be.

I went to school for Harley Davidson mechanics. The one teacher ran his classrooms as close to military style as he could get away with. He would deduct points if you dropped a tool. He would deduct points if you left a spec of dust on the bike when you were done. He would deduct points for everything he felt was less than perfect. And he almost never complimented anyone. 95% of the students spent 95% of their free time crying and complaining about this guy.

Well by chance I was assigned to his class for the final evaluation period and testing so I knew I had my work cut out for me. I was trying to finish with the highest grades out of the 75 students and I wind up with the strictest teacher in the school. I wasn't sure how that was going to go but in the end I pulled it off. I didn't waste my time crying about 'respect is a two way street'. I didn't question if the guy was 'technically my boss' even though I paid $12,000 to attend that school. I didn't curl up in a ball and cry when he got on me for missing a step or not having my shirt tucked in properly. I focused on the task at hand, I followed his lead, and I got the job done better than anyone else. That was the reward I was after and that's how I handled it.

We live in an incredibly fragile society today in my opinion. The utter lack of discipline, pride, and personal responsibility is appalling. The complete lack of character you see in so many people today is truly disappointing. This "you're not my boss" stuff is utter BS in my opinion. Daniel is risking his life and being held responsible for training this guy to do a job with life or death consequences. He d*mn sure is the boss! And if he's going to prevent that student from killing someone he needs to hold him to high standards and let him know when he screws up. This isn't a d*mn game. People's lives are at risk here. If you can't stand being held to high standards and you can't take criticism when you screw up then give those keys to a grown man and go get yourself a job at the mall selling sunglasses.

"Respect is a two way street" is normally uttered by people who have no intention of earning any respect. They just feel they should get it by default. Maybe that was true in their world. In my world being given the opportunity to learn from a veteran who was willing to help you get better was being shown respect. You returned it 10-fold if you understood the value of that opportunity.

(Not joining this crowd)
NewGuy has been through trucking school and has gotten to the point he needs to learn how the trucking business works. It's about appointment times, as far as the customer is concerned. And your (his, too) money comes from being on time both for pick up and delivery. That's why I suggested earlier that he should have made one home visit for the birthday party, not two as he did.

I totally agree.

It seems NewGuy had to go to a laundromat (he was not home when you got there) to do laundry. Laundromats are available at many truck stops. You have a load that's worth up to, say, a couple hundred dollars. So clean clothes or your paycheck? You decide.

As for the Boss thing. You are training him. He needs to learn from you, Mr Mentor. If that means making sure to do a pre-trip even though you just did one yesterday, so be it. A post-trip, too! As trainer, you aren't really able to fire him, but you are responsible for getting him to know and understand the trucking business. You and he do not have time do "adjust" from his previous life to the trucker life.

Not sure if this was in response to my comments, but I agree that he should have been there to meet him, even if it meant having no clean clothes or wet clothes. I also wasn't suggesting that he needs time to "adjust" or have his hand held. Like I said, in this situation, I might have left him at home and let him call the FM to figure out how to finish his training.

My only point was that it is incredibly weak and ineffective to say to someone, "I'm the boss." This is based on years of managing employees, supervisors, and managers, and training new supervisors and managers. It is a rookie mistake to tell an employee "I'm the boss." The response (usually internally but sometimes said out loud) is generally something along the lines of "No ****!? I'd completely forgotten that! Thanks for reminding me!" A lot of times they shut down and ignore everything you say after that. Then what? They don't change their behavior, or they change that behavior and find some new way to show you that they're your equal. It becomes a war that no one wins.

So, my comments were meant to suggest an alternative to saying, "I'm the boss." People say that when they're frustrated and angry because someone they're responsible for just f'd something up. Part of being a good boss is to be calmer than those around you and to provide solutions.

This doesn't apply if you're the boss in, say, the mafia or a drug cartel. Then you run things on fear and intimidation, and occasionally you might have to whack someone. Trucking isn't really run that way, at least not on this level. Maybe on the Jimmy Hoffa level, but not on the training for Prime level. And fear and intimidation as a mangement style always fails in the long run. The criminal types end up dead or in prison, organizations fold and are replaced by new ones.

Training a new truck driver includes managing that student and leading them to the most productive path. Educating, managing, and leading are all different things. The best trainers do all three well. The bad trainers you hear about all the time repeatedly fail in one or more of these areas.

I'm certain that Daniel is good at educating. He managed his student well by setting an ETA and communicating it clearly. Saying "I'm the boss" is ineffective leadership.

The best example I can give was taught to me by one of my old bosses. He was an Army captain and made us memorize the Army's definitions of "management" and "leadership." I have forgotten the exact definitions, but it's something along the lines of "management is handling the people and processes needed to get the job done" - i.e., making sure they get paid, making sure you have enough people staffed, making sure they have the necessary equipment, etc.

Leadership is the combat lieutenant saying, "Follow me!" and then running over the hill toward the enemy.

I'm sure Daniel runs over the hill all the time. He leads by example. But what do you do if your men don't follow? In the Army, you might die, but if you don't, the last thing that lieutenant is going to say to his men when they all get back together is, "I'm a lieutenant, I outrank you, I'm the boss." There are stories of those guys getting fragged in Vietnam.

The better way is to hold them accountable without reminding them that you're the boss. Give them consequences. That's how they know you are the boss. Telling his FM why he couldn't take the load was necessary, and also resulted in consequences for the student. He got his ass chewed. And if it were me, any repeat behavior like this (being late) would result in kicking him off the truck immediately and with very few words. Those are consequences.

I have taught middle school people for over ten years. I know about learning modes and multiple intelligences and all that stuff. I have all the patience in the world as long as my student is learning. I also know NewGuy is not a kid. I believe in explanations as a learning tool. Your explanation for putting his wet clothes on the truck: "You had plenty of time to do this in the last two days. Just not right now. We can stop at a truck stop later to finish this. Right now, money is waiting and I do not want to lose it."

That's a great example.

@Bud, I don't pull rank ("I'm the boss), it's not my style. I just might get into NewGuy's face, offer him the option to get his wet clothes onto the truck to stay home & wait for the next mentor.

Success for a driver is mostly in the timing. So doing laundry when you're supposed to be going for your load is a no-no. It sounds like N.Guy did get the message that he wasn't on vacation.

Also, once a situation is handled, we all move on. Never hold a grudge, it distracts from the learning process. And ... You two are stuck living in a small can for several weeks!

That's great! NewGuy was in a buddy road-trip mode until you woke him up to the fact this is a business trip.

That's exactly how I felt. I think he forgot that he's in training and thought it was just a trip with a buddy now that he has his license.

Bud, my good friend, our styles are completely different it seems. Mentally, he was on a buddy/buddy level with me which is probably why he didn't think being late would hurt him. After all, surely his good friend wouldn't get mad at him and would let it slide, right?

Reminding him who I am (boss not buddy) set him straight and put him back in his place. It reminded him of my role and that this isn't a road trip.

And from my experience, the proof is in the pudding. He is better than ever, takes this much more seriously, and has been a pleasure to work with ever since. He got too comfortable with his position and with me. I admit that I befriended him more than I should have. But this brought the atmosphere back to a trainer/student environment.

Just my opinion.